Iverson on the Cheap... [Archive]

BigMike

04-02-2009, 12:57 PM

Per this article http://www.nba.com/2009/news/04/01/iverson.reserve.ap/index.html

AI may be willing to play cheaply to be a starter. I most certainly doubt that he'd jump out of the NBA if he cant start though, but this just shows his frustration with his current situation.

Then again, I'm not sure how much he'd play here either with Bell and our hopeful SG first round pick.

But he is also a product of the Larry Brown system; he has proven skills, and already believe in the play style. I like Bell but I would play AI as a short minutes starter over him any day. Besides at 33 AI only has 1 - 3 good years left in him. 2 years of a SG depth chart "AI - Bell - Rookie draft pick" would be a good thing.

amour217

04-02-2009, 01:20 PM

spectre

04-02-2009, 02:41 PM

I'll pass on Iverson...we don't need that malcontent on this team. I mean he can start for us, but what if he has an off year or his skills start a steep decline? Then you try to bench him and he pitches a fit like he's doing right now in Detroit. No thanks.

See all the new passing/ball movement in 08/09

See Iverson play for Charlotte.

See all the passing/ball movement disappear in 09/10

See Boris become as valuable as Nazr Muhammed in '10.

See the Bobcats being mediocre in the lottery until AI retires.

The LAST thing we need on this team is a player who has to have the ball in his hands at all times. I like AI a lot and he's one of my most favorite players to watch...but I don't want him on my team.

TattoodCats4life

04-02-2009, 02:42 PM

SG depth chart -> AI - Bell - Curry. Keep him happy he has a bad year, he starts, and comes out first dead ball :)

millst2

04-02-2009, 03:17 PM

I would go for AI in the off-season. He has played well for LB and LB made him into a lot of what he became. He knows LB will bench his ass if he doesn't perform as it happened to him before. They did clash at times but they got the job done and the older AI gets he knows his time is limited.

I think that if we could pick him up and tell him he can have starter minutes as long as he doesnt start interrupting the team, then we do it. I mean damn, the celtics picked up Stephan Divabury and no real issues,, i think mainly due to the fact he knew as Iverson does his career is ending soon. If we could get AI for non all-star pay and get 20 pts a game, that would make the bench deeper and allow us that go to guy at games end which we in no way have now. I mean our go to guy lately is Felts and we saw how that helped last night.

I am game!

Plus it would help in marketing and building up a fanbase, which outside of us diehards, we do not really have. be nice to atleast see us on espn for someone other than Wallace. I love wallace he is the main man in my eyes, but doesnt hurt to have that 1-2 punch.

Keetch

04-02-2009, 03:22 PM

... just say no ...

BETCATS

04-02-2009, 04:11 PM

I'll pass on Iverson...we don't need that malcontent on this team. I mean he can start for us, but what if he has an off year or his skills start a steep decline? Then you try to bench him and he pitches a fit like he's doing right now in Detroit. No thanks.

That theory sounds like a convincing reason not to take him, but it doesnt apply here.

The one person Iverson respects the most is Larry Brown, if LB noticed something wrong with his game and benched him, Iverson wouldnt be mad about it publicly, because he respects LB. The Detroit situation is complicated, because it is a rookie head coach who has two All Star guards and one starting postion. Both players will not respect this coach's authority, the coach will have to make moves to appease the fans. One of these player's in the conflict is more established in Detroit (Hamilton) so he will start. The only reason this coach isnt fired is because the team is still paying its three past coaches (Carlise, LB, and Skip + Skip's coaching staff) and cannot afford to add more names to that list of 'people that dont work for you but you owe money'. Dumars made a bad choice and sacrifised a nice looking win percentage, but if you be realistic, you could see the Pistons were not contendors with Billups this year anyway, so i guess Dumars wanted to dump salaries and regroup things this comming offseason.

Now lets say we do resign Raymond and sign Iverson. This situation would be nice. Raja came off the bench in Phoniex, and before that he came off the bench behind Iverson in Philly, so he would have no problem adjusting to that role like Richard Hamilton did. Iverson could be our starter. To get a realistic view of what he can produce for us, just look at his numbers he posted in Denver (THIS SEASON, NOT 07-08), which was a system he worked decently in. That is basically 18 points, 6 assists, 3 rebounds, and 1 steal.

Besides the numbers we would also get another thing: a big market name.
Iverson jeresys would be on peoples backs, Orange Reebok 'Answers' would be on peoples feet, we would have a lock at least 1 representative at the All Star Game, we would get on real national tv (TNT, ESPN, ABC), and we would get that thing we crave for: RESPECT.

So please, i know he isnt young, i know he wont average 30 a game, but just please bring me Allen Iverson.

teej

04-02-2009, 04:20 PM

That theory sounds like a convincing reason not to take him, but it doesnt apply here.

The one person Iverson respects the most is Larry Brown, if LB noticed something wrong with his game and benched him, Iverson wouldnt be mad about it publicly, because he respects LB. The Detroit situation is complicated, because it is a rookie head coach who has two All Star guards and one starting postion. Both players will not respect this coach's authority, the coach will have to make moves to appease the fans. One of these player's in the conflict is more established in Detroit (Hamilton) so he will start. The only reason this coach isnt fired is because the team is still paying its three past coaches (Carlise, LB, and Skip + Skip's coaching staff) and cannot afford to add more names to that list of 'people that dont work for you but you owe money'. Dumars made a bad choice and sacrifised a nice looking win percentage, but if you be realistic, you could see the Pistons were not contendors with Billups this year anyway, so i guess Dumars wanted to dump salaries and regroup things this comming offseason.

Now lets say we do resign Raymond and sign Iverson. This situation would be nice. Raja came off the bench in Phoniex, and before that he came off the bench behind Iverson in Philly, so he would have no problem adjusting to that role like Richard Hamilton did. Iverson could be our starter. To get a realistic view of what he can produce for us, just look at his numbers he posted in Denver (THIS SEASON, NOT 07-08), which was a system he worked decently in. That is basically 18 points, 6 assists, 3 rebounds, and 1 steal.

Besides the numbers we would also get another thing: a big market name.
Iverson jeresys would be on peoples backs, Orange Reebok 'Answers' would be on peoples feet, we would have a lock at least 1 representative at the All Star Game, we would get on real national tv (TNT, ESPN, ABC), and we would get that thing we crave for: RESPECT.

So please, i know he isnt young, i know he wont average 30 a game, but just please bring me Allen Iverson.

You know, for once, I think you make 100% sense...that was brilliant.

My only worry would be his defense, but I'm sure that he would be willing to give enough minutes to Raja, who because of the rest he would get would have a better jumper off the bench. So we would improve Raja as well...

Co-Sign!

TattoodCats4life

04-02-2009, 06:18 PM

You know, for once, I think you make 100% sense...that was brilliant.

My only worry would be his defense, but I'm sure that he would be willing to give enough minutes to Raja, who because of the rest he would get would have a better jumper off the bench. So we would improve Raja as well...

Co-Sign!

Also keep in mind as well that against certain teams we could play AI/Bell 1 and 2, and against a small fast as hell team like the new Knicks we could play a line like AI/DJ/Bell/Wallace/Diaw (or May, he has been moving faster of late, and a center needn't be the fastest player).

SWedd523

04-02-2009, 06:39 PM

No.

I do NOT want Allen Iverson.

Ghost Kat

04-02-2009, 07:05 PM

Hands down, I'd love to have Iverson.....He brings fans, money, and attention...Plus the man is a proven player

ELEVATION

04-03-2009, 12:16 AM

I think that he would be a good pick-up as well. He and Larry have worked together in the past and I think that they both realize the potential left in the tank for at least 2 seasons. As far as ticket sales and marketing it would be great..even though Iverson is getting older, he is still a popular player in sports. He would be only about 5 hours from his hometown in Virginia also. It just makes sense that he ends up in a bobcats jersey.
I say go for it!
check out this link..David Aldridge gives his take on the situation
http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/david_aldridge/04/02/iverson.20090402/index.html
"More than the statistics, Iverson makes sense in Charlotte for the very reason so many others would say he doesn't -- his history with Brown. Iverson knows how Brown pushes his buttons, but he also knows Brown is the best coach he's ever played for. Brown knows that dealing with Iverson is a handful for a coach, but he's already done it. And he also knows no one wants to win more; changing the culture of losing in Charlotte has been one of Brown's toughest problems"

superb1

04-03-2009, 11:31 AM

I would love to do it.

BUT

FO signing or drafting players to boost ticket sales has not worked well for us in the past. But this is AI though.
We would have two SG over 30 and a rookie heir apparent. But by time both are done, we could sign someone.

i say do it

ILBIT

Ghost Kat

04-03-2009, 06:24 PM

Iverson would have to change his number again....Martin has #1 and Wallace has #3....So I guess Iverson can bully Martin out of that #1 Jersey and I bet it would be a number one selling jersey for this franchise....WE NEED THE MONEY!!!!! I don't want to lose another franchise :mad:

b-nukle

04-03-2009, 07:34 PM

I rather make a trade for JR Smith than pick up AI. AI not that good at defending the 2. Plus I don't think he can drop over 25 like he use to. JR Smith is up and coming.

BobcatsAllDay

04-03-2009, 10:45 PM

I rather make a trade for JR Smith than pick up AI. AI not that good at defending the 2. Plus I don't think he can drop over 25 like he use to. JR Smith is up and coming.

He (JR) doesn't know it but LB would be the best thing that ever happened to him. He is a star SG in waiting w/ the right coaching, he would be unstoppable. I bet the Hornets wish they still had him...

TattoodCats4life

04-04-2009, 02:02 AM

Tonight pointed out the obvious...our SG depth chart is currently
Raja -> No One (Cartier is better on the 3, and lately has been too hesitant).

Tonight we could have used having Dontell available instead of Nazr or May whose only job tonight was helping Bell off the court.

spectre

04-04-2009, 09:16 AM

DETNEWS | Weblogs | Pistons Blog (http://apps.detnews.com/apps/blogs/pistonsblog/index.php?blogid=1882)

People are speculating that he will be reunited with Larry Brown in Charlotte. That's not going to happen. Brown had his time with Iverson and he's not looking for a sequel.

Pretty scathing article on AI. Other points:

The Allen Iverson project failed, and it failed for a lot of reasons. Mostly, though, it failed because Iverson's game didn't fit with the Pistons' concept of team.

There are some indisputable facts. Iverson, at 33, has lost a step, some of his explosiveness and his jump shot, never great, got a whole lot worse. Same could be said for his defense. As much as people kept waiting for his break-out game, waiting for him to dazzle like the AI of old, it wasn't going to happen.

I thought he showed his true colors this week. For all his talk about doing whatever it took to win a championship, he couldn't do the only thing the Pistons asked of him. Come off the bench. He says his back still hurts, and you have to take his word. But, to miss a month and not do any conditioning, not even as little as riding a stationary bike, of course he's going to be sore when he first comes back. What was the old Sparky Anderson line, "Pain don't hurt you." Had Iverson been starting and being asked to play 35 minutes, my guess is he would have fought through the pain. But to do it for a bench role? He wanted no part of it.

Yeah, we really need this selfish guy on our team. :rolleyes:

teej

04-04-2009, 10:34 AM

He wouldnt be selfish for LB, and if LB doesnt want him neither do I

I just think its a good idea for the team...

spectre

04-06-2009, 10:27 AM

Larry Brown: Allen Iverson can still play (http://www.detnews.com/article/20090406/SPORTS0102/904060386/1265/Larry+Brown++Allen+Iverson+can+still+play)

Auburn Hills -- Larry Brown has heard all the speculation. He's heard everything, from people saying Allen Iverson (http://www.detnews.com/article/20090406/SPORTS0102/904060386/1265/Larry+Brown++Allen+Iverson+can+still+play#) won't draw a lot of interest as a free agent this summer to Iverson's best bet might be to reunite with Brown in Charlotte.

Brown, speaking before his Bobcats lost to the Pistons on Sunday, said he wouldn't bet on either scenario.

"There will definitely be a lot of interest in him," Brown said. "It's not a time for me, but Allen is a special guy. He's going to compete every night and try to win. I hope things work out for him.

As for whether he wants to coach Iverson again -- they were together for six years in Philadelphia -- he didn't bite on that one.

"I don't want to get into that right now because we don't know what will happen with us in the draft or in free agency," he said. "My thing is, some guys who are at the end of their careers you want to see go where they can win a championship. At this stage of Allen's career, that has to be paramount in his mind. Anybody who thinks they are close (to winning a title), I wouldn't be surprised if they stepped up and tried to get him."

Clearly, the Bobcats don't fit that profile. Brown has spent this season building a foundation and an identity, and young guards Raymond Felton (http://www.detnews.com/article/20090406/SPORTS0102/904060386/1265/Larry+Brown++Allen+Iverson+can+still+play#) and D.J. Augustin are primary building blocks.
I wouldn't expect AI to be in Charlotte next year.

LB4President

04-06-2009, 11:10 AM

Who are we to turn our nose up at Allen Iverson? I don't think it will happen but if we can get him we should. You guys complain about not having a late game closer, but you don't want AI. I think we could start him alongside Felton because Felton can run point and is big enough to guard a shooting guard. Plus from a business standpoint AI will sell tickets and jerseys. But I still don't see that happening.

Weezy21

04-06-2009, 11:46 AM

"My thing is, some guys who are at the end of their careers you want to see go where they can win a championship. At this stage of Allen's career, that has to be paramount in his mind. Anybody who thinks they are close (to winning a title), I wouldn't be surprised if they stepped up and tried to get him."

But AI has already said he doesnt want to come off the bench next year so a lot of those "championship" teams might not go after him...us however, might start him an have raja come off the bench

TattoodCats4life

04-06-2009, 12:50 PM

But AI has already said he doesnt want to come off the bench next year so a lot of those "championship" teams might not go after him...us however, might start him an have raja come off the bench

That is the angle I was coming at honestly. You've got a guy who is unhappy making $20mil coming off the bench, he might be happier with single-digit millions (I wont even speculate at if he'd take an MLE or if he'd want money like Wallace makes) and the spotlight for his final contract.

Either way, if he WERE willing to play for lower end money to be a starter instead of maybe making a bit more, coming in off the bench for 15-20 min, where else would he want to go but to a smaller market city who would totally embrace him, a great coach with whom he has a relationship as it is etc...

I just look at it like this, he could be a Cav (assuming they want and can afford him), come off the bench and go for the repeat (assuming the Cav's can kill everyone in their path). (I dont think they want or can afford him with LeBron).

He could go somewhere like OKC or the Kings or Warriors, he may start some nights, he may not, but certainly he doesn't know their systems, doesn't "LOVE" their coaches, you get it...

Here he has everything he wants and will have everything he needs.

We'll find out in August :)

teej

04-07-2009, 12:47 AM

They talked about AI on Around the Horn the other day, and Woody Paige and J.A. Adande both though AI would be a good fit here, but Jay Mariotti and Tim Cowlishaw quite literally laughed the idea off. Based on LB's comments, I think he wants to talk it over with Ai first, and he's hedging.

dnbman

04-07-2009, 12:51 AM

BRNC

04-07-2009, 12:59 AM

I think it is a bad fit...period...but I'm sure if LB wants him (and I have serious doubts about that) the FO would try to sign him...Karl was smart enough to get him out of Denver (they really got the better end of that deal) and I hope we are smart enough (and I think we are) not to bring him here...

I have not agreed with some of the trades we made this year (for various reasons) but I could see the logic for each trade...I see no logic in bringing AI here...I do not see a fit...but just my opinion...

SWedd523

04-07-2009, 07:55 PM

He'll have his moments, but he's not the same AI anymore. You see what happened to Detroit by switching AI for Billups.

I just don't think it's worth picking him up. I'd rather build with mostly young players than be riding a central piece's decline.
You have the right idea. We have a bunch of young guys in a CORE and we're building around multiple people. Why bring in one aging (and declining) star and give the guys the mentality that they band around one player?

We should keep with the youth and let the guys grow up together and develop into a deep, quality team. If we can't bring in a great SG in the draft then our first concern should be trying to acquire a younger emerging star like Jamal Crawford, JR Smith, Ben Gordon, or even Eric Gordon.

Marvel

04-09-2009, 01:46 AM

amour217

04-09-2009, 07:48 AM

You have the right idea. We have a bunch of young guys in a CORE and we're building around multiple people. Why bring in one aging (and declining) star and give the guys the mentality that they band around one player?

We should keep with the youth and let the guys grow up together and develop into a deep, quality team. If we can't bring in a great SG in the draft then our first concern should be trying to acquire a younger emerging star like Jamal Crawford, JR Smith, Ben Gordon, or even Eric Gordon.

Very well-put +1

The touchy thing about bringing Iverson in is that (no matter what Fart Mommy, or whatever his SN is, says) this team is more or less a success this season because they have shown the ability to step it up and play cohesively, albeit not quite consistently yet. This team just needs some more seasoning time together to continue to work out the kinks and play more consistently, and I just don't think adding Iverson and his start-me-or-I'll-retire BS will do much good, particularly since he's obviously on the downside of his career and will need to throw up a huge multitude of shots in order to be the scorer a lot of people on here think he's going to be. And regarding Larry Brown, there's also the possibility that at this point in his life he really doesn't want to put up with Iverson's bull again...I mean come on, think back on those years with AI and LB...they were successful at the time (not to mention AI was in his absolute prime), but if ANYONE remembers the press conferences and interviews, you know that relationship was quite contentious at all times. And with someone as cantankerous as Iverson who still thinks he's a 33ppg MVP, I don't see it working well here.

TattoodCats4life

04-09-2009, 12:25 PM

Iverson or any other aging star who happens to decide to land here will need to be able to deal with Brown, and AI is good for that...He wants to start...fine...start play the first quarter, sit 2nd, play some 3rd and some 4th for like 25 minutes total... I'm not expecting him to out score wallace most the time, and i'm not expecting him to play 40+ minutes our staters seem to play at times...I just think he might help.

SWedd523

04-09-2009, 11:20 PM

I've put alot of thought into why i want Iverson here next season and i don't really feel like typing a whole lot but let me say this, we want to make the playoffs next year? We want a closer to close out tight games and get it done? Iverson is "The Answer".We need a true scorer and AI still has it for another 2-3 years i would love AI to be wearing a Bobcats jersey next year,and to be honest who else can do what AI can that we can get next year if you're all thinking that that player is in the 09 draft you guys are seriously deluded,in a trade i don't think so,Charlotte Bobcats want to make the playoffs next year AI is "The Answer".
When I think about Iverson, I think more about "The Question Mark" than "The Answer". Detroit brought him in 1. because he would be a huge contract coming off the books, and 2. to CLOSE GAMES (like you said).

Well. He hasn't closed any games that I can recall. He only scored about 18ppg when he was starting. He took a team LB built: around teamwork and tough defense and low mistakes, and turned them into a team fighting for the 8th playoff spot.

You need to understand that we wouldn't be getting the 76ers Allen Iverson (that I idolized), we'd be getting the Pistons Allen Iverson (step slower, half as productive offensively, nonproductive defensively, and opting to sit out the remainder of the season because his back hurts when he should be helping them fight to get into the playoffs).

I don't want that on my team. I enjoy the camaraderie we've built here, and I love that everyone plays hard all day and never gives up. I don't want to risk that when we're just starting to learn how each other plays.

Marvel

04-11-2009, 04:33 AM

When I think about Iverson, I think more about "The Question Mark" than "The Answer". Detroit brought him in 1. because he would be a huge contract coming off the books, and 2. to CLOSE GAMES (like you said).

Well. He hasn't closed any games that I can recall. He only scored about 18ppg when he was starting. He took a team LB built: around teamwork and tough defense and low mistakes, and turned them into a team fighting for the 8th playoff spot.

You need to understand that we wouldn't be getting the 76ers Allen Iverson (that I idolized), we'd be getting the Pistons Allen Iverson (step slower, half as productive offensively, nonproductive defensively, and opting to sit out the remainder of the season because his back hurts when he should be helping them fight to get into the playoffs).

I don't want that on my team. I enjoy the camaraderie we've built here, and I love that everyone plays hard all day and never gives up. I don't want to risk that when we're just starting to learn how each other plays.

He doesn't need to score 24-25 ppg to be effective in LB's system which is a slow pace system anyway.What we need is a scorer who can close out games i mean look at what Kobe,Bron,Pierce or Joe johnson does when the game is on the line they go iso and spread the court Iverson can do that and to me he still is one of the best at doin it.Obviously we won't be getting the 76ers Iverson but he will give us what we need and what we all here on these forums have been asking for.I say if he can put up 19-20ppg with Wallace and whoever that third option may be scoring around 15-19 that should solve our offensive woes.I guess the real question is Iverson willing to sacrifice his ppg hmmmmm probably ......maybe not who knows.Plus he's a free agent

SWedd523

04-11-2009, 10:29 AM

He doesn't need to score 24-25 ppg to be effective in LB's system which is a slow pace system anyway.What we need is a scorer who can close out games i mean look at what Kobe,Bron,Pierce or Joe johnson does when the game is on the line they go iso and spread the court Iverson can do that and to me he still is one of the best at doin it.Obviously we won't be getting the 76ers Iverson but he will give us what we need and what we all here on these forums have been asking for.I say if he can put up 19-20ppg with Wallace and whoever that third option may be scoring around 15-19 that should solve our offensive woes.I guess the real question is Iverson willing to sacrifice his ppg hmmmmm probably ......maybe not who knows.Plus he's a free agent
No I mean I understand what you're saying and it's a valid argument. But my worry with him is that he doesn't have the quickness to be a closer anymore. He's always been small, but his saving grace was his exception speed and ability to get by people because he was never much of a shooter anyway.

Now that he's lost some of that speed he hasn't been anywhere near as effective. Detrout brough him in to close games out as well, but he hasn't done it.

He definitely wouldn't approve of getting less shots and overall production, that's the reason why he's sitting out in Detroit and threatening to retire.

davcbow

04-11-2009, 11:24 AM

We need a player that will come in and hit the last shot not a player that might hit the last shot, thus "a clutch shooter". We have a team full of player that might hit the last shot..... Remember Alonzo Morning hitting that last second 3 to beat Boston in the playoffs? Thats what we need a player like that...:cool:

teej

04-11-2009, 01:22 PM

He definitely wouldn't approve of getting less shots and overall production, that's the reason why he's sitting out in Detroit and threatening to retire.

He might for LB...he knows LB would use him the best of any coach out there. And right now, maximizing his usage is what he needs the most.

Oh and uh, who would you rather have shooting at the end of the game...AI or Raymond?

SWedd523

04-11-2009, 05:42 PM

He might for LB...he knows LB would use him the best of any coach out there. And right now, maximizing his usage is what he needs the most.

Oh and uh, who would you rather have shooting at the end of the game...AI or Raymond?
Jamal Crawford.

teej

04-11-2009, 08:23 PM

Jamal Crawford.

...Was not an answer choice :p

SWedd523

04-11-2009, 08:56 PM

...Was not an answer choice :p
James Harden.

:shrug:

teej

04-11-2009, 09:02 PM

You REALLY don't want Iverson, do you?

coordinator0

04-11-2009, 09:57 PM

You REALLY don't want Iverson, do you?

That would be a big HELL NO from me.

SWedd523

04-11-2009, 10:05 PM

You REALLY don't want Iverson, do you?
It's not that I don't want him... he's just not at the top of my list right now. I think people tend to look at him like "HOLY SHIT ITS ALLEN IVERSON" and are blind to the fact that our options with draft picks and attractive players, we can bring in talent (like Crawford) that is much better for the time being and the future.

People just seem to be a little too enthralled with big names past their prime. What's next? Are we gonna trade Ray and bring in Nash's 49 year old butt because HES STEVE NASH? Are we gonna bring in Shaq's 58 year old butt to help our frontline out because God knows, HES SHAQ