Tayshaun Prince VS Gerald Wallace

[spectre]

Gerald Wallace
Born July, 1982
Ht: 6' 7" Wt: 220
PPG - 16.6
RBG - 7.8
APG - 2.7
SPG - 1.7
BPG - 0.9
48% FG
80% FT
30% 3P%

Tayshaun Prince
Born Feb, 1980
Ht: 6' 9" Wt: 215
PPG - 14.2
RBG - 5.8
APG - 3.1
SPG - 0.5
BPG - 0.6
45% FG
78% FT
40% 3P%

Crash has 4 more years at 9.5 per (38 million)
Prince has 2 more years at $10,324,380 & $11,147,760 (21,472,140)

LB says Crash hasn't even hit his potential and he did everything that LB asked for this past season. Prince is a great example of Brown's "play the right way"...he takes few gambles, doesn't leave his guy on defense (and plays very good man D). Prince is 2 years older and is most likely not getting any better, tho he's probably not going to decline much over his last 2 years either.

Prince adds another 3 pt threat, has a better BBIQ. Crash can take over, pretty much sink a team single handedly. Crash is prone to injury, Prince is an iron man...not missed a game in the last 5 seasons.

First and formost, do you think Larry Brown would make the swap? Would you make the swap?

[Slam]

I'm finding it very hard to vote with the battle between my heart and my head distracting me so much.

[davcbow]

I want Crash to remain a Bobcat, Price would be a good pickup but a expensive one. We would have to do a trade to get him. Crash is the better value and brings more...:cool:

[spectre]

Sorry, I should have clarified about the poll.

Choose 1 of the first two choices and 1 from the second two choices. The first 2 are what you think Larry Brown would do and the second two are what you as a fan would rather happen.

[Slam]

Gotcha - and I made the commitment.

I went with options 2 and 4

[spectre]

Gotcha - and I made the commitment.

I went with options 2 and 4

Heart won out eh? :p

It's a tough decision on both counts. At first glance you'd think he would love to get Prince in here, but the way he raves about Crash I'm not so sure he'd be ready to pull that trigger.

I'm still thinking...

BTW, this was inspired by Cowology's thread but isn't really related. Cap space in his suggested deal plus the assets make that much more than just a simple Crash/Prince swap. It'd be damn hard to turn that one down.

Course you probably knew that already.

[Slam]

Heart won out eh? :p.
Totally!

Princes contract is nicer (because it's shorter) and that on ball D would be great, but like you said, Crash is that 2 years younger and I think he can still get so much better.

I want to put the future of the team in the hands of Crash, Boris and (for me at least) DJ and build around those three by adding playerrs that compliment them while truly defining their roles.

[Dead_Real]

Voted 4 as well I was just impressed with how aggressive Crash started to attack the rim again this season (ala 05/06 season). It's like he watched a great ammount of Dominique Wilkins film after the All Star break because every drive to the basket he looked determined to not be denied. Not to mention if we get T-Will he'll add another good on ball defender that we would get in Tayshaun.

[spectre]

I voted for Prince (LB & myself). Crash is by far my most favorite player on this team, but if we swapped out I think we'd be pushing near tops in the league in defense, the extra 3 pt shooting would be huge and we wouldn't suffer so much with such an integral player missing 15 games a year.

Now I'm going to go throw up...I feel like I just cheated on the wife.

[SWedd523]

I voted for Prince (LB & myself). Crash is by far my most favorite player on this team, but if we swapped out I think we'd be pushing near tops in the league in defense, the extra 3 pt shooting would be huge and we wouldn't suffer so much with such an integral player missing 15 games a year.

Now I'm going to go throw up...I feel like I just cheated on the wife.
You consider Prince's defense to be better than Crash's? I can see where they're close, but I couldn't justify losing the soul (Ray being the heart) of our team for someone who isn't much of an upgrade, if one at all

[rsxnova]

I would take Prince on a team that already has a superstar. Wallace means more to us because he is the closest thing to a star we have.

[coordinator0]

Well, with how the Bobcats are set up now we need another good rebounder on the floor and Crash is exactly that, great for his position actually. Now Tayshaun isn't no slouch either but he's not on Crash's level. Prince is easily the better shooter but Crash is the better driver, so take your pick (Prince's shooting is more needed than Crash's driving right now IMO). I'm not sure that one over the other would improve the team by any substantial amount so i would rather just stick with Crash.

[mrtarheel]

This one is easy, Crash. No way Prince comes in and gives us the heart that Crash does and besides his outside shooting isn't all that great.

[ziggy]

In general I prefer Crash also known as TheBammaSlamma over Prince.

BUT

There is one thing that swings me towards taking Prince. It's the repeated hard falls and brutal injuries that Gerald is involved in every season. I fear that one of these times he is going to hit the floor and that's going to be all she wrote for his career.

[spectre]

You consider Prince's defense to be better than Crash's? I can see where they're close, but I couldn't justify losing the soul (Ray being the heart) of our team for someone who isn't much of an upgrade, if one at all

Not "man up" he's not; Prince is a great on ball defender. Now if you're talking help defense or steals...those things that LB says can leave your mates in a bad way...then that's easily Crash.

Prince plays D "the right way".

It's not like I want to give up Crash. With the injury history, LB's small window to "win now" and Prince's high BBIQ I just think he would be a better fit. We'd be adding another leadership type player ala Raja Bell and it would put the team farther along.

[teej]

It's too close of a call to say it's an upgrade, and Tayshaun is 2 years older in life, and more than that in NBA years. Crash is a lot younger, and even if LB wanted to do it, I doubt Rod and MJ would let him.

LB CAN be vetoed, you know. And he's teaching crash and the rest how to "play the right way" so pretty soon, our guys will be just like his old guys.

[Slam]

Tayshaun is 2 years older in life, and more than that in NBA years.
What are you talking about? Crash has been in the NBA 1 year longer than Prince.

[GoBobs]

No way do we trade crash for prince. LB would never do that and neither would I. LB's D is based on helping your teamates and then rotating to get back. Crash is the best help defender in the leauge, gets a ton of rebounds and makes all the athletic plays.

[davcbow]

No way do we trade crash for prince. LB would never do that and neither would I. LB's D is based on helping your teamates and then rotating to get back. Crash is the best help defender in the leauge, gets a ton of rebounds and makes all the athletic plays.


I agree.... :cool:

[spectre]

No way do we trade crash for prince. LB would never do that and neither would I. LB's D is based on helping your teamates and then rotating to get back. Crash is the best help defender in the leauge, gets a ton of rebounds and makes all the athletic plays.

Actually LB's defense is based on each position being able to not only cover their man tightly but switch flawlessly (see Pistons from a couple years ago) onto the next man while the guy who was picked takes care of HIS man. That's a big part of why you hear "can play multiple positions" so much.

When one guy in the rotation can't cover his guy the other players then try to compensate...what you're saying above...and that's when we get into trouble.

Crash on his best day can't match Prince doing that.

Defensive rebounds...with Boris at PF...is a legitimate point. I dare say tho that adding another high IQ player who knows how to BOX OUT would counterbalance that somewhat.

[SWedd523]

What are you talking about? Crash has been in the NBA 1 year longer than Prince.
I assume he's talking about all of the trips the Pistons made into the playoffs while Gerald was on vacation.

Long stints into the playoffs take their toll after awhile

[teej]

I assume he's talking about all of the trips the Pistons made into the playoffs while Gerald was on vacation.

Long stints into the playoffs take their toll after awhile

Exactly.

Tayshuan has played 534 regular season games, 17,825 minutes. In addition, he has played 118 playoff games with 4409 minutes. That's 22,234 minutes total in the NBA. Also, let's just thrown in college, since that's another disparity. Tayshaun, 135 games, 4018 minutes. Since he turned 18, thats 787 games, and 26,252 minutes.

Gerald has played 468 games, 13065 minutes, with 15 games and 52 minutes in the playoffs. That's 483 NBA games, with 13,117 minutes. In college, he played 36 games and 824 minutes. So since Crash turned 18, he's played 519 games, and 13,941 minutes.

Who's got fresher legs? In a debate this close, I thik you need to go with that. And spectre, I think it was you that was worried about injuries? Boris can play the 3, and we need to draft a swingman for depth there as well.

[spectre]

And spectre, I think it was you that was worried about injuries? Boris can play the 3, and we need to draft a swingman for depth there as well.

I agree we need more swing depth; Vlad as the primary worries me. And yeah, Boris CAN play the 3...but then we fall into what I was talking about earlier; a disadvantage for us defensively as Boris can't stay with the athletic 3s.

Realize guys...I'm playing more a devils' advocate type role here. If it came down to it and my hand was on the trigger it wouldn't be pulled. Crash is an impact player whereas Prince is more a system player. We need the impact.

This is just taking a critical look at what could be a possibility.

[SWedd523]

Crash is an impact player whereas Prince is more a system player. We need the impact
You nailed it.

That's basically the way I look at it. Gerald is a guy that excites people. He's a high flyer, he gets steals, he blocks shots, he's wild. Everybody loves that.

We aren't a very exciting team with our deliberate, slow tempo game. Crash raises the energy a few levels. Prince just goes out there and contributes, and while there's nothing wrong with that, it's just.. boring.


And to teej again: You are correct. While he's younger, he's played twice as much basketball in his career. That's going to take its toll sooner or later (see Kevin Garnett)

[ohara831]

I just thought that Crash bettered his all around game this year. I think as far as their overall game, I'd take Crash over Prince with great confidence.

[GoBobs]

In terms of the pistons defensive philosophy the were based on TEAM D not having guys who could lock down one on one. Having guys who could play different positions was important because they switched every pick on the pick and roll. Sure it helps to have guys who are great individual defenders but in the NBA guys are going to go by guys. Whenever the pistons went up against Lebron they would say things like "we have to play him as five."

Prince being better then Wallace at perimeter D is debatable but, conceding that point I would take the blocks, steals and rebounds that Gerald brings if I were trying to put a good defensive team together.

[Slam]

I assume he's talking about all of the trips the Pistons made into the playoffs while Gerald was on vacation.

Long stints into the playoffs take their toll after awhile
And the flip side of that is that Prince has MUCH more big game, playoff and championship experience and that even though Prince has more college and NBA miles on his rig, Crash has missed many more games.

I think the whole point is moot and totally irrelevant to the subject.

[SWedd523]

And the flip side of that is that Prince has MUCH more big game, playoff and championship experience and that even though Prince has more college and NBA miles on his rig, Crash has missed many more games.

I think the whole point is moot and totally irrelevant to the subject.
To each his own.

When the talent level is negligible at best, taking the younger, fresher player makes more sense to me.

[Slam]

To each his own.

When the talent level is negligible at best, taking the younger, fresher player makes more sense to me.
Even if he is more injury prone with a longer contract?

I would consider those two points more important than anything else he mentioned.

[SWedd523]

Even if he is more injury prone with a longer contract?

I would consider those two points more important than anything else he mentioned.
For this team, at this moment, yes. We have a struggling fanbase as it is. Get rid of our most exciting piece and you'll see that number dwindle

[Ghost Kat]

Wallace, Without a second thought. Wallace equals energy. Plus, Wallace is just better then Prince. I personally would never intertain the idea of getting Prince for Wallace, And who else? Draft picks? First born son? Better be good......

[teej]

For this team, at this moment, yes. We have a struggling fanbase as it is. Get rid of our most exciting piece and you'll see that number dwindle

Which is why MJ would veto this trade even if Lb brought it up.

Slam, since we aren't in a free agency battle, contracts don't matter unless they are that disproportionate.

As far as the two, if I'm looking to buiild a team, I'd take Gerald over Tayshuan anyday. We have playoff experience with Vladi, Gana, Raja, and Boris, so bringing in another guy who's been there isn't too important. What's important is that Gerald provides a broader skill set, and with more time with LB he will be even better. Tayshaun got his time with LB, so we should assume he's maxed out. Gerald, on the other hand, has only had maybe 1 or 2 years with real coaching.

[spectre]

FWIW a Blazers' fan posted on the trade board that they offered Raef LaFrenz's expiring contract that was 80% paid for by insurance straight up for Crash at the last deadline and we refused.

That is one helluva cap savings folks. If we refused that then I'd say Crash is pretty darn high on LB's "love" list.

[Ghost Kat]

Can Prince play PF in the NBA? I seriously doubt it, But Wallace can (at times). Wallace is in his NBA prime and still has great bounce in his step. Only problems he had this year was a cheap shot from Bynum and he was still Crash after that. Prince with all his playoff experience and NBA minutes, Plays like a old man. The Pistions can keep Rasheed too, But I'll take AI as a PG coach if he's still to hurt to play.

[coordinator0]

Can Prince play PF in the NBA? I seriously doubt it, But Wallace can (at times). Wallace is in his NBA prime and still has great bounce in his step. Only problems he had this year was a cheap shot from Bynum and he was still Crash after that. Prince with all his playoff experience and NBA minutes, Plays like a old man. The Pistions can keep Rasheed too, But I'll take AI as a PG coach if he's still to hurt to play.

Actually Prince did see quite a few minutes at PF this season. He actually wasn't too bad either, but it was only against the smaller 4's in the league and when Detroit went to a fast-paced offense. I wouldn't want him there a lot though, even though he's proven to be pretty durable.

[Ghost Kat]

Naw, This team needs players they can market to the general public. There are fans ( mainly girls) that watchthe games just to see Wallace fly there the air and dunk on someone. Ok, Well I watch the games for that too, But thats not the point. Prince is a role player, We need a scorer. We need a player maker someone that will end up on SportsCenters top ten every now and then.

[teej]

Naw, This team needs players they can market to the general public. There are fans ( mainly girls) that watchthe games just to see Wallace fly there the air and dunk on someone. Ok, Well I watch the games for that too, But thats not the point. Prince is a role player, We need a scorer. We need a player maker someone that will end up on SportsCenters top ten every now and then.

Considering that's the only way we get on tv...

[Beekizzle]

Considering that's the only way we get on tv...

I know... it's such BS. I wish just once they would play a reg season game (home would be awesome) against the Lakers or Celtics on ESPN or TNT. The only thing that sucks is 50% of the crowd comes to root against my Cats. That is until we are up 10 in the fourth, then everyone is jocking.

[rsxnova]

Naw, This team needs players they can market to the general public. There are fans ( mainly girls) that watchthe games just to see Wallace fly there the air and dunk on someone. Ok, Well I watch the games for that too, But thats not the point. Prince is a role player, We need a scorer. We need a player maker someone that will end up on SportsCenters top ten every now and then.

Vlad Rad?






.......

[teej]

Vlad Rad?






.......

He got on there once with a shot that wasnt meant to happen. and won't happen again

thats not what crash does