Trade Idea

[spankymoore7]

Hey guys

I was wondering what yall think about this

Cats
Send: Gerald Wallace, Dontell Jefferson
Receive: Carlos Boozer

Portland
Send: Travis Outlaw
Receive: Gerald Wallace, Dontell Jefferson

Utah
Send: Carlos Boozer
Receive: Travis Outlaw

Cats get a low post presence to go with Okafor and allow Diaw to move to his more natural 3 spot
Portland gets Wallace who they have coveted for basically nothing
Utah clears Boozers contract and in return get a young prospect

It would be expensive, but if we then resign Felton and offer Iverson the midlevel our lineup would be

PG: Felton
SG: Iverson
SF: Diaw
PF: Boozer
C: Okafor
Bench: DJ, Bell, Henderson, Vlad, Diop

Thoughts?

[Walt Cronkite]

Deal. Getting Boozer and keeping Okafor is key. Hopefully we'd get him with an extension, but if not, it's not so terrible to be out of the contract entirely if he were to bolt.

[Fred Williamson]

I've said it like 10times on realGM, if we want Boozer we HAVE to deal Diaw.
Otherwise we have to start Diaw or Radman at SF, which would be horrendous. Both of them aren't true small forwards and at most medicore defenders.

I mean, who will guard Lebron, Anthony, Pierce, Wade, Durant, Granger, Jax and so on...... Those guys who are big, fast, and can score at will.

With Diaw/Boozer/Radman defending them, we would get raped at the forward positions, by almost every team.

of course we get a guy who can score in the lowpost, but trading Wallace for Boozer would hurt us more than help.

[docend24]

no way. Boozer has no heart and could leave us anytime or sports some injury just because he could anytime. He is no reliable.

[Fred Williamson]

that's another good point.

[rsxnova]

Wait so we are going to start 3 Power Forwards?

[teej]

Wait so we are going to start 3 Power Forwards?

LOL I was about to say we finally got close to having people play the right spot, why mess that up?

No deal. But nice try.

[spectre]

I agree with Schnitzel3 on Diaw at the 3. Crash's D plus his rebounding could (hopefully) offset some of the loss with not having a point/forward.

I have no firm belief if the extra scoring from the post would offset Diaw's loss, but I think it could be close.

[Walt Cronkite]

It would be better to give up Diaw, sure. But I'd move Crash or Boris to get Boozer. High reward, low risk opportunity. Maybe the thing to do is NOT extend Boozer?

Best case: We have the perfect compliment to Okafor and have a strong frontline. Diaw/Boozer/Okafor are capable of guarding rangy bigs and big time post players, but is susceptible to quicker players. Wallace/Boozer/Okafor are capable of guarding faster guys but struggle to defend the post. Offensively, Wallace and Diaw are both really important to the current structure of the team, Wallace can drive, Diaw is a great passer/playmaker, shooter and has some post moves. The team goes to the playoffs and has to do more tweaking, but is closer to being a real threat than before.

Worst case: We get out of a long term contract, get a lot worse in 2010-11 and rebuild.

[teej]

It would be better to give up Diaw, sure. But I'd move Crash or Boris to get Boozer. High reward, low risk opportunity. Maybe the thing to do is NOT extend Boozer?

Best case: We have the perfect compliment to Okafor and have a strong frontline. Diaw/Boozer/Okafor are capable of guarding rangy bigs and big time post players, but is susceptible to quicker players. Wallace/Boozer/Okafor are capable of guarding faster guys but struggle to defend the post. Offensively, Wallace and Diaw are both really important to the current structure of the team, Wallace can drive, Diaw is a great passer/playmaker, shooter and has some post moves. The team goes to the playoffs and has to do more tweaking, but is closer to being a real threat than before.

Worst case: We get out of a long term contract, get a lot worse in 2010-11 and rebuild.

Crash and Diaw are both "value" contracts for what they produce, and Crash is the only reason half the people who show up to games do. Diaw isn't as effective at the 3, and Boozer is getting older.

And if we rebuild, it's without LB. He's pretty much said so.

[Chef]

stopped reading after the cats send wallace part.

[SWedd523]

If you trade Wallace the sputtering fanbase will only dwindle even more regardless of the fact that Boozer is a Dookie.

Crash is the main dude on this team. You don't trade him.

[GoBobs]

Wallace > Boozer

pass

[Walt Cronkite]

Crash and Diaw are both "value" contracts for what they produce, and Crash is the only reason half the people who show up to games do. Diaw isn't as effective at the 3, and Boozer is getting older.

And if we rebuild, it's without LB. He's pretty much said so.

Boozer turns 28 in November. Not sure how you can say Diaw isn't as effective at the 3, he only played 1% of the team's minutes there, as opposed to 50% of the teams minutes at the 4. People get stuck up on these numbers too much, but you want the 5 best players that compliment each other who are effective against another team. Wallace and Diaw are both "value" contracts for what they produce, so is Carlos Boozer. He'll be paid 12m next season (which is a contract year) and in the playoffs he put up 20/10 on above 50% shooting.

LB has already been around for rebuilding. Look at the roster compared to what we had when he arrived. There's what, 4 guys left?


Sweed, the fact that Gerald Wallace is the main dude on this team is the reason that this team is as bad as it is. I love crash, but he's not a franchise player. Boozer could be.

[teej]

Boozer turns 28 in November. Not sure how you can say Diaw isn't as effective at the 3, he only played 1% of the team's minutes there, as opposed to 50% of the teams minutes at the 4. People get stuck up on these numbers too much, but you want the 5 best players that compliment each other who are effective against another team. Wallace and Diaw are both "value" contracts for what they produce, so is Carlos Boozer. He'll be paid 12m next season (which is a contract year) and in the playoffs he put up 20/10 on above 50% shooting.

LB has already been around for rebuilding. Look at the roster compared to what we had when he arrived. There's what, 4 guys left?


Sweed, the fact that Gerald Wallace is the main dude on this team is the reason that this team is as bad as it is. I love crash, but he's not a franchise player. Boozer could be.

When Boris played the three, he just plain wasn't as effective. His best time in Pheonix was when he played in the 4 and 2...he needs a size/athleticism advantage to be effective from what I can tell.

Boozer won't stick around after next season

LB won't stay if we have to rebuild again, he wants to win, that's it.

Gerald isn't that much worse if any worse than Boozer. If we can have a Diaw vs. Boozer convo, I see no way that Boozer can trump Crash. We're a team, not built around one player.

[Walt Cronkite]

How would we not be a team with Boozer for the price of Diaw or Wallace?

Current construction

Felton: plays tough defense against any guard. good vision.
Bell: 3 point threat, mid range threat, capable of guarding elite wing defenders
Wallace: monster in transition, excellent rebounder for his size, good defender against players his size or smaller, injury prone.
Diaw: excellent playmaker for his size. poor rebounder, but he does the little things. can score in the low post. good defender against pfs, regardless of hight or athleticism
Okafor: excellent rebounder, very good defender against centers. Scoring threat in close.

Our team, as currently constructed, relies on Wallace or Diaw to have superstar level games. When Wallace gets injured, Bell and Diaw have to step up.

Boozer is a dominant offensive player. He gives us an actual top 30 offensive player in the league. He isn't as agile as Wallace or as gifted a playmaker as Diaw and he's worse defensively than both of them, but you're being straight up silly if you don't think he'd actually add a dynamic aspect to our offense.

The question to ask: Is the loss of Wallace/Diaw's defense offset by the go-to offensive presence Boozer brings, considering that Boozer would instantly be the weakest link on defense (a situation the Jazz have been doing alright with)?

In regard to the rest of your post, the Diaw at the 3 comment is still a straw man argument-- he never played there. I've already addressed your comments about LB in regard to rebuilding and how Boozer possibly leaving could be a plus. Did you even read my post?:(

[SWedd523]

I'm not saying Crash isn't better. But the simple fact is that he is the most exciting and loved player on the team. If you trade him for a one year rental of Boozer then that's going to seriously piss off the few fans that have been around for the Cats and RE piss of the fans that are finally warming up to the team since the Hornets left.

Add that to the fact that our only backups to Crash are a rookie (UPS) and a tweener (Vlad) and that really doesn't spell well. I mean, sure, Diaw could move down to the 3.. But he wasn't effective in that role in Phoenix and likely won't be very effective doing it her.

Trading Diaw for Boozer, on the other hand, would definitely be something I'd consider as there are far more high level wing players than post players so it'd be easier to make up for the loss of Diaw.

Sign Boozer to an extension and trade Diaw for him and then we're talking.

[teej]

How would we not be a team with Boozer for the price of Diaw or Wallace?

Current construction

Felton: plays tough defense against any guard. good vision.
Bell: 3 point threat, mid range threat, capable of guarding elite wing defenders
Wallace: monster in transition, excellent rebounder for his size, good defender against players his size or smaller, injury prone.
Diaw: excellent playmaker for his size. poor rebounder, but he does the little things. can score in the low post. good defender against pfs, regardless of hight or athleticism
Okafor: excellent rebounder, very good defender against centers. Scoring threat in close.

Our team, as currently constructed, relies on Wallace or Diaw to have superstar level games. When Wallace gets injured, Bell and Diaw have to step up.

Boozer is a dominant offensive player. He gives us an actual top 30 offensive player in the league. He isn't as agile as Wallace or as gifted a playmaker as Diaw and he's worse defensively than both of them, but you're being straight up silly if you don't think he'd actually add a dynamic aspect to our offense.

The question to ask: Is the loss of Wallace/Diaw's defense offset by the go-to offensive presence Boozer brings, considering that Boozer would instantly be the weakest link on defense (a situation the Jazz have been doing alright with)?

In regard to the rest of your post, the Diaw at the 3 comment is still a straw man argument-- he never played there. I've already addressed your comments about LB in regard to rebuilding and how Boozer possibly leaving could be a plus. Did you even read my post?:(

First off, yes, I read your post - I read every post I can. I went back and reread it to make sure I wasn't missing anything, and maybe we just aren't on the same level.

First, you're discounting Mek's and Ray's offensive contributions. When Ray scores over 20 ppg, we're nigh unbeatable. When Mek is dominant, so is the rest of the team.

Next, I only recall Boris having two "superstar level" games. One in Toronto and one in Golden State. Boozer is a 20/10 guy. That's not much better than Crash, and if we traded Diaw, that limits the other players' opportunities. When Diaw did play at the three, which was close to a whole game, he wasn't nearly as productive. Before coming here, he was classified as a 3, but in reality he was best when playing the 2 or 4. If we move him to the three, he loses his advantages...

Lastly, Boozer leaving puts Mek as the franchise player, us still over the cap, lacking a fan base, and in need of a coach. How in the hell does that help?

[spectre]

How would we not be a team with Boozer for the price of Diaw or Wallace?

Current construction

Felton: plays tough defense against any guard. good vision.
Bell: 3 point threat, mid range threat, capable of guarding elite wing defenders
Wallace: monster in transition, excellent rebounder for his size, good defender against players his size or smaller, injury prone.
Diaw: excellent playmaker for his size. poor rebounder, but he does the little things. can score in the low post. good defender against pfs, regardless of hight or athleticism
Okafor: excellent rebounder, very good defender against centers. Scoring threat in close.

Our team, as currently constructed, relies on Wallace or Diaw to have superstar level games. When Wallace gets injured, Bell and Diaw have to step up.

Boozer is a dominant offensive player. He gives us an actual top 30 offensive player in the league. He isn't as agile as Wallace or as gifted a playmaker as Diaw and he's worse defensively than both of them, but you're being straight up silly if you don't think he'd actually add a dynamic aspect to our offense.

The question to ask: Is the loss of Wallace/Diaw's defense offset by the go-to offensive presence Boozer brings, considering that Boozer would instantly be the weakest link on defense (a situation the Jazz have been doing alright with)?

In regard to the rest of your post, the Diaw at the 3 comment is still a straw man argument-- he never played there. I've already addressed your comments about LB in regard to rebuilding and how Boozer possibly leaving could be a plus. Did you even read my post?:(

That is one stellar post.

The bolded part is what I tried to say earlier. I don't know which would end up being more successful...probably whichever between Booz & Crash who could stay the least injured.

What I think the deciding factor given the two choices will be is the consistent word in each of your descriptions for each current player...defense. Larry Brown's whole team concept is predicated on the defense initiating the offense. That's not to say he can't make it work with someone like Booz (he made it work with AI), but I think his preference would be to stick with the defensive theme.

[spectre]

Now what I disagree with...:p

Boris is too slow for the 3 spot. No matter what the stats say I've seen him iso'd on the perimeter against opposing SFs and he looked like a little girl among men. He just doesn't have the lateral footspeed to keep up with those guys. Using his weight he can compensate for that in the paint a lot better and use his smarts to defend his man.

We just need a stronger bench. Give Crash & Raja some rest and maybe they won't get injured so much. Give Felton more rest and maybe he won't fall off the reservation quite so much with those "WTF" moments.

[Walt Cronkite]

Part of the reason we're nigh unbeatable when Felton scores 20+ is because it meant he had an effective night. I did a study on this on RGM, I'll google search and try and find the post. It's a totally empty stat to reference. I'm one of the biggest Okafor supporters you'll find, but he's not an offensive big man threat like, say, Carlos Boozer.

Boozer averaged 20/10 as a premiere player on a playoff team for two seasons in a row. Wallace averaged 19/6 and 16/8 on a lottery team. Despite the fact they get their points totally different ways, you don't see a difference there? You prove my point for me in mentioning that Boris only had 2 "superstar level" games, he was unable or unwilling to do what is necessary to carry a team on offense.

Finally, it's unlikely that we'd acquire Boozer. It's even more so that we'd acquire him as a one year rental, but if it were to happen, I don't think we'd be in as bad of a situation as you paint it out to be. We're not a lock for the playoffs as is, so it's no lock we'd be any better or worse in the fan base department. Mek is already a borderline franchise player for us and we actually would have a little bit of cap space because we'd be out of Raja and Gerald's contracts with Radman and Mohammed being valuable players because of their expiring status the season after.

You keep saying all this stuff about LB, where are you getting it from? Do you really think he took the job in Charlotte because he wanted to win? The dude wants to teach the game of basketball and better the sport, listen to his french nt video, it explains perfectly why he's in Charlotte.

[Walt Cronkite]

Now what I disagree with...:p

Boris is too slow for the 3 spot. No matter what the stats say I've seen him iso'd on the perimeter against opposing SFs and he looked like a little girl among men. He just doesn't have the lateral footspeed to keep up with those guys. Using his weight he can compensate for that in the paint a lot better and use his smarts to defend his man.

We just need a stronger bench. Give Crash & Raja some rest and maybe they won't get injured so much. Give Felton more rest and maybe he won't fall off the reservation quite so much with those "WTF" moments.

Unfortunately for me, the stats back up what everyone has been saying, Diaw has always (well, since he was traded to the Suns) been most effective as a 4 on offense and defense. Still, I have to wonder about them since it was D'Antoni ball. I think LB could make it work against most teams. We'd struggle against teams that spread the floor like Orlando, but is Diaw that much less athletic than Kirilenko?

If we HAVE to do Boozer for Wallace, I think it'd be worth it to do. If it's Diaw for Boozer, sure, that seems like a better fit for us at least. Would it be so bad to have to package Diaw because he didn't fit with Boozer?

[teej]

You keep saying all this stuff about LB, where are you getting it from? Do you really think he took the job in Charlotte because he wanted to win? The dude wants to teach the game of basketball and better the sport, listen to his french nt video, it explains perfectly why he's in Charlotte.

He has said in several press conferences that if the team goes through another rebuilding stage, he's out. Yes, he wants to teach, but he wants to teach so that his teams win. At this point in his life, with his health issues, being away from his family, and being over 70, he's not going to waste his time rebuilding.

Would you if you were in his situation?

Also, You say the situation isn't as bad as we paint it to be as far as the fans. I'm not saying your wrong, but 1) how many games have you been to, 2) where do you live, and 3) how many people talk about the bobcats in person?

[Walt Cronkite]

He has said in several press conferences that if the team goes through another rebuilding stage, he's out. Yes, he wants to teach, but he wants to teach so that his teams win. At this point in his life, with his health issues, being away from his family, and being over 70, he's not going to waste his time rebuilding.

Would you if you were in his situation?

Also, You say the situation isn't as bad as we paint it to be as far as the fans. I'm not saying your wrong, but 1) how many games have you been to, 2) where do you live, and 3) how many people talk about the bobcats in person?

Maybe it'd be helpful if you defined "rebuilding"? We literally have 4 guys on the roster right now that were here before LB arrived. I can't fathom how the change of Boozer from Diaw/Wallace leads to some drastic w's or l's. It's almost a lateral move where we get the far more talented player, Utah just doesn't need him because they want Millsap going forward and want to get something for him before they lose him for nothing.

Now define "win". The Bobcats are not going to be a championship contender anytime soon. The East is stacked, we're a recent expansion team and we haven't made a lot of positive moves. You acquire talent and figure it out as you go... at least that's what worked for us last year.

If I'm LB, I move my family to the place I want to live and get a basketball job there. Who doesn't give him a job? A job, singular, anything. Some team does. The French NT is doing backflips that he's involved, Vincent Collet was practically giddy in that news conference.

I live in Raleigh. I didn't make it to a single game last year, but had season tickets for the two seasons before that and made it to 20ish games a season. Fucking nobody talks about the Bobcats in Raleigh, not in the social circle I deal with. I've had slightly more conversations about them as I've had with people that are like "We have a pro team?:confused:"

[teej]

Maybe it'd be helpful if you defined "rebuilding"? We literally have 4 guys on the roster right now that were here before LB arrived. I can't fathom how the change of Boozer from Diaw/Wallace leads to some drastic w's or l's. It's almost a lateral move where we get the far more talented player, Utah just doesn't need him because they want Millsap going forward and want to get something for him before they lose him for nothing.

And when Boozer leaves US for nothing, we'll enter a rebuilding phase, which means we'll be in the lottery mining talent for the next few years, trading talent away for potential.


Now define "win". The Bobcats are not going to be a championship contender anytime soon. The East is stacked, we're a recent expansion team and we haven't made a lot of positive moves. You acquire talent and figure it out as you go... at least that's what worked for us last year.

Win is getting into the playoffs and being a contender every year.


If I'm LB, I move my family to the place I want to live and get a basketball job there. Who doesn't give him a job? A job, singular, anything. Some team does. The French NT is doing backflips that he's involved, Vincent Collet was practically giddy in that news conference.

He's over 70, and from what I read has a teenage son in high school back in Philly (age difference is big, yes, but that's what I read). His fam. is happy there, and if/when you have a family, you'll realize that just packing up and moving isn't that easy, especially when there's a woman invovled. Or a transatlantic move.


I live in Raleigh. I didn't make it to a single game last year, but had season tickets for the two seasons before that and made it to 20ish games a season. Fucking nobody talks about the Bobcats in Raleigh, not in the social circle I deal with. As often as I have slightly more conversations about them as I have with people that are like "We have a pro team?:confused:"

My point exactly. I can't think of another team with as little of a fan base, and 75% of that fan base is built on Gerald Wallace and/or Emeka Okafor. And LB has said Boris is smarter than any player or coach he knows, including himself. I doubt we're trading those three unless we get a lot better. Doing otherwise is financial suicide.

[Walt Cronkite]

I think Boozer would be happy to accept a deal for us, especially if things went well. NC is like his second home, his brother played hs ball in Raleigh the same time I was in hs. Look at the situation in Denver with Billups. Chauncey left, had success, came back... and now he's like a deity. If Boozer comes in and wins, he'll be embraced. If Boozer comes in and the team does worse than it would've with Wallace or Diaw, then I don't think it was very well constructed in the first place.

If winning is being a contender every year, then I have not a damn clue why LB moved to Philly if that's what he wants. He'll be 80 by the time that's happening at this rate.

Yes, our team has a pathetic fan base. Bob Johnson has made a lot of mistakes, Bernie Bickerstaff made a bunch of mistakes, yada yada yada. The UNC angle, the Ammo angle, all drastic failures. You know what didn't fail? Winning. The Cable Box was doing just fine filling it's capacity when we were a playoff hopeful team on a hot streak. I think Boozer is the very best player of these 3 and gives LB, the FO and the fans the best maneuverability in regard to what they all want--winning.

[davcbow]

I can't think of another team with as little of a fan base, and 75% of that fan base is built on Gerald Wallace and/or Emeka Okafor. And LB has said Boris is smarter than any player or coach he knows, including himself. I doubt we're trading those three unless we get a lot better. Doing otherwise is financial suicide.

Its like this most of my friends still are like, "oh yeah I heard Charlotte had another team, whats their name "the cougars" or something like that"..... and then I have other friends that use the Hornets moving away as a reason they dont care about the Bobcats.... on top of that some other friends didnt even realize that Charlotte had a basketball team until I told them. Word of mouth gets more advertising than the airwaves..... BJ has done nothing to advertise the Bobcats in this area unless its on pay tv on a game being broadcast on AM radio....So we do need something to get possible fans excited to go to Charlotte and watch the Bobcats play....:cool:

[GOBOBCATS24]

We can't trade Gerald. we just can't. hes the man. now i wouldn't be so opposed to trading Diaw for Boozer "skrate up". then If we signed AI we would be legit with two big boys down low who can dominate the boards. Boozer is a great player. What player on our team has come to Charlotte and doesn't like it here? Nobody. Its impossible not to love a place where you are so appreciated by your fans in a "small" market area. I think he would like it here. Who can't love NC its the greatest!!

[SWedd523]

Walt, let me reiterate that the issue is WHO we're trading for Boozer. Trade Diaw by all means but Crash (at this point) means too much to this team and the city to be traded.

I honestly think we're an elite SG or PF away from being a great team. Our PG situation is set, our Center situation is just fine. Crash could use a backup but I think UPS will fill that role along with Radman.

If we can get a SG that will put up 25 (or so) ppg then we're a top 5 team in the East. If we get a PF that can put up 20 and close to 10 then we're also golden. Boozer would fit that criteria.

But he's not worth Crash! :paddle:

[teej]

Explain to me, Swedd or Walt, where our offense will generate if we trade Diaw

I love what he does, yes, but even an impartial person will tell you that he's much more valuable than his points, rebounds, and assists, unlike Boozer.

Remember when we had J-Rich, before Raja and Boris came? That's what we'd be like with Boozer. Ray's good, but he's not THAT good.

[Chef]

any and all trades we make up on this site need to involve raja first and foremost. mek second. diaw, wallace, felton are our core. mek can only be traded if we got someone like boozer (assuming he would not be a 1 year loaner).

it will have to be raja + some combo of vlad, nazr, or diop for a shooting two or scoring pf.

just my 2 cents as a current 2k gm.

[BRNC]

Explain to me, Swedd or Walt, where our offense will generate if we trade Diaw
I love what he does, yes, but even an impartial person will tell you that he's much more valuable than his points, rebounds, and assists, unlike Boozer.
Remember when we had J-Rich, before Raja and Boris came? That's what we'd be like with Boozer. Ray's good, but he's not THAT good.

Teej...I'll admit that I'm anything but impartial...but when Diaw was really needed (after Crash was hurt in LA) he disappeared...the intangibles you see with Diaw escape me...if we could get even a one year rental with Diaw for Boozer I'd do it in a heart beat...I'd like to let his contract (Diaw) go away...

[Walt Cronkite]

TJ-I honestly don't know where our offense would come from without Diaw, this is one of the reasons I preferred to give up Wallace. Jrich was a jumpshooting guard, Boozer is a skilled big man with an array of post moves and a slick jumper, who attacks the glass like a madman. That is a horrible analogy.

[teej]

Jrich was a jumpshooting guard, Boozer is a skilled big man with an array of post moves and a slick jumper, who attacks the glass like a madman. That is a horrible analogy.

:facepalm:

I wasn't comparing the two at all! I was just saying that our lack of offensive movement when we had J-Rich would be similar to if we had Boozer...

[Walt Cronkite]

and I'm saying that's a terrible point to try and make. Which player shoots closer to the basket? Do you typically want to run an offense outside-in or inside-out?

Further establishing my point, when we had Jrich and no Diaw, we gave the ball to Richardson and he either shot a 3 or tried to create something. Boozer you don't do that with. You allow him to establish position or you pick and roll/pop with him. :sarcasticfacepalm:

[teej]

and I'm saying that's a terrible point to try and make. Which player shoots closer to the basket? Do you typically want to run an offense outside-in or inside-out?

inside out...but i also want passing, and boozer isn't going to do a ton of that like diaw.

I don't see how it was a terrible point to make, all i was saying was we wouldn't have a guy to initiate our offense :shrug:

[SWedd523]

inside out...but i also want passing, and boozer isn't going to do a ton of that like diaw.

I don't see how it was a terrible point to make, all i was saying was we wouldn't have a guy to initiate our offense :shrug:
point guard

[teej]

point guard

Try getting Ray to initiate our offense. Tell me how well that works for ya.

[Walt Cronkite]

inside out...but i also want passing, and boozer isn't going to do a ton of that like diaw.

I don't see how it was a terrible point to make, all i was saying was we wouldn't have a guy to initiate our offense :shrug:

No big in the league is going to do a ton of passing like Diaw does.

Look, I like the team just fine as currently constructed. They play hard, they're fun to watch, it's a team. I love the NBA, I've always liked following the local team, so I'll support the team no matter what pretty much. You just suggested that LB is only here to win and that winning meant being a contender. We are no where close to being a contender. Playoff team? Sure. Not a contender.

LB's contract is over in what, a year and a half. ZOMG WHO WILL COACH IF WE R NOT A CONTENDAR!?!?

[teej]

No big in the league is going to do a ton of passing like Diaw does.

Look, I like the team just fine as currently constructed. They play hard, they're fun to watch, it's a team. I love the NBA, I've always liked following the local team, so I'll support the team no matter what pretty much. You just suggested that LB is only here to win and that winning meant being a contender. We are no where close to being a contender. Playoff team? Sure. Not a contender.

LB's contract is over in what, a year and a half. ZOMG WHO WILL COACH IF WE R NOT A CONTENDAR!?!?

I said LB wanted to win (if you don't want to win, then retire), and that if we entered rebuilding mode, he would leave. I think that with one more smart trade we could very easily be a contender. Our starting unit's +/- was among the best in the east. We do well against Boston. If we got the 4 seed, Boston got the 1st seed, we could win 2 rounds. That's being a contender.

And judging by MJ's coaching decisions, I'd much rather have LB, and you won't find many better.

[Walt Cronkite]

I'm all about our starters (I broke the story about our 5-man unit +/-), I just think that the "one more smart trade" could very well be a move for Boozer. I think that's a pretty loose definition of "being a contender", btw. You're not a contender if you can only get through 2 rounds because the seeding aligned perfectly, your lucky. A contender has a shot of winning the O'Brian.

I love LB, we'd be hard pressed to find a better coach. I think we agree on a lot, maybe we're just not used to each other. I see holes in your argument and you see the ones in mine. We'll get there eventually.

[teej]

A contender has a shot of winning the O'Brian.


I love LB, we'd be hard pressed to find a better coach. I think we agree on a lot, maybe we're just not used to each other. I see holes in your argument and you see the ones in mine. We'll get there eventually.

Who would have said the Magic were there at this point last year? I didn't think they could win it in the playoffs! But I'd consider them a contender for sure.

Also, is there any worse trophy than the O'Brien?

Yeah, I understand what you're saying I just really don't think Boozer's our guy. But other than that, I agree with a lot of what you're saying.

[Walt Cronkite]

Sure... but the Magic were a relative playoff fixture in a topsy-turvy Eastern Conference with two All-Stars, one of which almost any team in the league would be ecstatic to have as the poster-superman of their franchise.

No, there isn't a worse trophy than the O'Brien :D http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&p=19858584

Were there any rumors or ideas about T-Mac to the Bobcats here? I know there were on RealGM. A lot of us were receptive to the idea as a salary dump. This move is similar to that, except you actually get a useful asset instead of just an undo button. Would you be more receptive if Utah took bad a bad contract instead of TMNT?

[teej]

Sure... but the Magic were a relative playoff fixture in a topsy-turvy Eastern Conference with two All-Stars, one of which almost any team in the league would be ecstatic to have as the poster-superman of their franchise.

No, there isn't a worse trophy than the O'Brien :D http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=6&p=19858584

Were there any rumors or ideas about T-Mac to the Bobcats here? I know there were on RealGM. A lot of us were receptive to the idea as a salary dump. This move is similar to that, except you actually get a useful asset instead of just an undo button. Would you be more receptive if Utah took bad a bad contract instead of TMNT?

1) If Gerald and Mek were on other teams they'd be all-stars, and being an all-star isn't a measure of worth...AI made it last year.

2) Thank you, that's hilarious

3) BCP does not accept salary dumps:paddle: We create them

[Walt Cronkite]

1= probably true.

3= fair enough I guess.

[Ampsportsduo]

Argh, so much about this thread pains me.

1. Diaw is a PF. He gets destroyed trying to guard SFs. Moving him there is not viable. This is not a straw man argument, its a fact. He is much more comfortable guarding closer to the basket. can't hepl but wonder if other fan bases deal with such common misconceptions of two of their starters. Between this notion and the move EO to his "natural" PF position, I feel like I'm stuck in a cruel version of Groundhog Day.

2. Diaw at the PF is a much better fit for a system based on ball movement. Boozer is a talented player, but he's best suited playing under the basket. Pairing him with Emeka would only serve to congest the lane for the penetration of the guards (another fundamental in the LB system). Look to the Sixers with and without Elton Brand as an example.

3. This team is not in a position to contend for a title, but that should not be the goal for the Cats. Teams don't make the leap in one season (barring adding a MVP candidate and another fringe HOF-er like the Celtics did). It's a progression. So anyone suggesting that this team's goal should be to contend for a title next season is being unrealistic. Making the playoffs is a realistic goal and the correct goal for this collection of players.

4. This team is built to compete now, trading to facilitate rebuilding completely undoes all the work of the last year. Play with the semantics of "compete" all you want, but if this team can make the playoffs this season, they'll be armed with enough expiring salaries to trade for a top tier player next off-season. In a league where the majority of elite teams are nearing the end of their run and with others facing uncertainty due to free aency, our beloved Cats could be in good position to be a dark horse.

[teej]

3. This team is not in a position to contend for a title, but that should not be the goal for the Cats. Teams don't make the leap in one season (barring adding a MVP candidate and another fringe HOF-er like the Celtics did). It's a progression. So anyone suggesting that this team's goal should be to contend for a title next season is being unrealistic. Making the playoffs is a realistic goal and the correct goal for this collection of players.

If you're talking about what I said, I was just definining contender...If I said we needed to be in line for one I shouldn't have...

[Ampsportsduo]

If you're talking about what I said, I was just definining contender...If I said we needed to be in line for one I shouldn't have...

This has been a repeated theme on the forums, as to what exactly "contend" means. I'm just saying teams have to progress and the Cats are in position to do so.

[Chef]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=l3zpmx

plus any draft picks they want.

why they may consider it. he will leave anyway after next year. they get boris who will fit in well with their team and raja is a tough guard to compliment calderon. they are both off their books in 2 years if they don't work out.

why we do it. roll the dice. see if we can get somewhere. yeah, he might leave, but it would be exciting. at least we are trying something. he is exactly what we need. takes pressure of mek to just worry about getting boards and playing d. plus, he will benefit from a ton of double teams going to bosh.

starting 5:
ray
dj or signee
crash
bosh
mek

[teej]

^Only if we sign him to an extension, which is possible. If so...HELL YES!

[TyHill]

Chad Ford had his NBA offseason ranking and ranked us 18th. this is ESPN insider and here is what he mentioned (Summary). "Larry Brown traded half his roster during the season, one would expect he would trade the other half during the summer" but so far the Bobcats have been quiet. He mentions if we can re-up Felton for a reasonable amount we are set at guard (NO AI) per say. He then mentioned a rumor cropping up that Gerald Wallace is on the trading block so to keep eyes open.

[Black]

i will be genuinely upset if we trade wallace

[SWedd523]

I would GLADLY do the Bosh trade. Him and Wallace would be a schweet combo. DO IT DO IT DO IT!

[azfollower]

I think this would be a better possibility...

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=lxwvd4

[Chef]

this trade shows just how many terrible contracts we have on this roster even now minus mek.

[SWedd523]

I think this would be a better possibility...

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=lxwvd4

No way in Hell do we bring Crash off the bench!!

Haha kidding of course, great trade AZ! Lol @ +57 wins.

[GOBOBCATS24]

so if we make that trade we would win over 75 games in the regular season? awesome.

[Fred Williamson]

Chad Ford had his NBA offseason ranking and ranked us 18th. this is ESPN insider and here is what he mentioned (Summary). "Larry Brown traded half his roster during the season, one would expect he would trade the other half during the summer" but so far the Bobcats have been quiet. He mentions if we can re-up Felton for a reasonable amount we are set at guard (NO AI) per say. He then mentioned a rumor cropping up that Gerald Wallace is on the trading block so to keep eyes open.

No freaking way. I think Boris and Gerald are the guys with a light "untouchable" status. When you heard Larry talking about them, you could guess that he's impressed and pleased with them and wants to help'em to improve their game

[Chef]

would u do this?

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=lvb94p

[teej]

^idk about that one, we aren't getting much more than salary relief...

[Chef]

we could use AK 47 as the most expensive backup in history or an occasional starter. korver can shoot (which we need, not sure of his defense but he is listed at 6'7". we lose all of our bad contracts and have tons of room in 2011. this would make us much more competitive against the magic and celtics (thinking 7 game series) and gives us an insurance policy against chandlers toe.

felton
korver/dj
crash
diaw/ak
chandler/james

[mrtarheel]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

This trade gets us from under Radman contract and gives us a legit backup to G Wallace. Then gives us about 3 mill to sign someone like Warrick, or Diogu for the backup 4 spot. Then we can sign AI with our exemption.

Felts, Dj, Jefferson
Bell, AI, Hendo
Wallace, Outlaw, UPS
Diaw, Warrick or Diogu, Ajinca
Chandler, Nazr, Diop

[teej]

^link doesn't work

But I'd trade Gana or Nazzy first, we need shooters.

[docend24]

you have to save the trade to get a link to paste "mrtarheel".

[Demon DeaCat]

^link doesn't work

But I'd trade Gana or Nazzy first, we need shooters.

I second that. I'm surprised how often Vlad's name gets thrown into these trade ideas. Without him our perimeter offense is pretty limited. His contract doesn't bother me at all. I'm excited to see what he can give this year with the chance to be here from day 1. With his skill set, he could be a poor man's Turkolou.

[Chef]

I second that. I'm surprised how often Vlad's name gets thrown into these trade ideas. Without him our perimeter offense is pretty limited. His contract doesn't bother me at all. I'm excited to see what he can give this year with the chance to be here from day 1. With his skill set, he could be a poor man's Turkolou.

his skill set is nice, but his contract is really expensive and long for what he has thus far proven to be able to do. on paper he is rashard lewis but he doesn't play like it.

[SWedd523]

his skill set is nice, but his contract is really expensive and long for what he has thus far proven to be able to do. on paper he is rashard lewis but he doesn't play like it.

He's been, by far, our most productive MLE contract.

[azfollower]

He's been, by far, our most productive MLE contract.
That's not really saying much though. None of our MLE players are particularly good players and I really don't think any of them are worth their contracts.

[Walt Cronkite]

I did a study on full MLE contracts on realgm. I know we had the most AND had played a part in Varejao and Landry being signed to the full MLE. I don't remember anyone really justifying their full MLE deals, Pryzbilla comes to mind, maybe Hedo if he was on the full MLE.

[SWedd523]

That's not really saying much though. None of our MLE players are particularly good players and I really don't think any of them are worth their contracts.
They aren't worth their contracts. But saying "trade Radman because he has a bad contract" is ridiculous when you have Diop and Nazr.


Trade Diop first, then Nazr, then Radman.

[teej]

Trade Diop first, then Nazr, then Radman.

Yup. But I'd save Nazzy til he becomes an expiring, he'll net something.

[SWedd523]

Yup. But I'd save Nazzy til he becomes an expiring, he'll net something.
That's why I said trade Diop first silly!

[teej]

That's why I said trade Diop first silly!

I might trade Radman before Nazzy though...

[dnbman]

I might trade Radman before Nazzy though...

I don't know. We need some long ball threats. It really depends what we could get back.

[docend24]

I don't know. We need some long ball threats. It really depends what we could get back.

I agree Nazr before Vlad (but it really depends on what the trading partner would want). Both are expiring in 11' so not that big deal we could keep them for that.

3pt threats - Raja, DJ, UPs is said to have a good range, Lexy ;) and to some extent Boris, Raymond and Crash, but it is hard to call them threats.