Is a Felton S&T

[vorbis]

A ridiculous conspiracy theory or slightly more likely after the Okatrade? I honestly don't know how desperate the owner's situation is.

[Black]

if we got a solid backup PF, and maybe packaged Nazr or Diop i would be interested...then sign Tinsley or Sessions

[dnbman]

A ridiculous conspiracy theory or slightly more likely after the Okatrade? I honestly don't know how desperate the owner's situation is.

I don't think it's a ridiculous idea, but it's unlikely. We'd have to take salary back if we trade him, so it doesn't make a whole lot of sense for us not to sign him ourselves unless we were getting back a quality player.

[teej]

Like has been said, I don't see us doing it unless we package bad salry in there and take back less salary, maybe Kirk Hinrich?

[playoffs...PLAYOFFS?]

I don't think it's a ridiculous idea, but it's unlikely.

agreed, i would give it 30% probability, can't discard it... i just think we are thin at the PG position already

[azfollower]

I think we should take a break from trading now. The only move that makes any real sense for the team right now is getting a decent back-up PF, which we need to do quickly with Diogu and Gooden now taken.

[teej]

I love how all the PF's have signed but my Celts boys...

[docend24]

We could theoretically trade for picks, but no as long as Larry Brown is the coach - wwe are still in win now mode. I would call S&T unlikely.

[dnbman]

We could theoretically trade for picks, but no as long as Larry Brown is the coach - wwe are still in win now mode. I would call S&T unlikely.

Picks don't count for anything until they are actually used to draft someone though. We'd still have to take salary back, though we do still have a small trade exception.

[spectre]

BYC makes it pretty much impossible, esp. since we just traded Mek. If we'd combined those two it could have been covered by the 125% rule.

[dnbman]

BYC makes it pretty much impossible, esp. since we just traded Mek. If we'd combined those two it could have been covered by the 125% rule.

What is Felton's BYC amount?

[docend24]

Picks don't count for anything until they are actually used to draft someone though. We'd still have to take salary back, though we do still have a small trade exception.

I'm not a capologist but pardon me how Marcus Camby was dealt to Clippers?

[spectre]

What is Felton's BYC amount?

If you mean how it's calculated then you take his last season's salary and multiply it by 120%...if it's over that then he'll be BYC. Last year's salary was 4,148,715 x 1.2 = 4,978,458.


I'm not a capologist but pardon me how Marcus Camby was dealt to Clippers?

They had cap space so they were able to take him on without having to give up anything.

[dnbman]

I'm not a capologist but pardon me how Marcus Camby was dealt to Clippers?

They had cap space after Brand left. If you're under the cap, you can do that. If you're not, you have to trade back roughly within 125% of salary.

[docend24]

Oh, I see. I still didn't get used to it, that we are not under the cap anymore and can't do anything we want:)

[tamburello]

Oh, I see. I still didn't get used to it, that we are not under the cap anymore and can't do anything we want:)

That's the same way we traded for Jason Richardson back in time, you probably remember.

[tamburello]

BYC makes it pretty much impossible, esp. since we just traded Mek. If we'd combined those two it could have been covered by the 125% rule.

Sir spectre, are you sure that s&t players count as BYC even if they would earn more than %120 of their previous salary?

[LB4President]

Yea I can't pretend to know exact Rules for BYC, but in terms of willingness to trade Felton I am totally down for it. I don't know how much he is asking but 6 million a year sounds right to me. 7 is pushing it but if it gets him to stay its okay. But more than likely he is asking 8 million which I think is the number he threw out in the middle of the year. He just doesn't have that much pull especially when everyone on the roster know Augustine is our future point guard.

And I admit I have never, ever liked Felton as a point guard. Even in college.

[BRNC]

I doubt the ST also...if Ray does not feel he is getting value then he'll work the QO and wait until next year...would not help the team though if he does...

[dnbman]

Sir spectre, are you sure that s&t players count as BYC even if they would earn more than %120 of their previous salary?

After reading Cox, that sounds like the exact situation BYC is for, with the idea being that you don't sign a player to a bigger contract than he should get to make a trade for a more expensive player work.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q73

Man, talk about confusing stuff. Check this out:


When comparing salaries for trade, teams use their own player's BYC value and the other player's full salary, even if the other player is also BYC. Here is a simple example -- two $5 million players, both of whom are re-signed (by teams over the cap) for $10 million. Both players become base year players whose base year amount is $5 million (50% of the new salary). If the teams want to trade these players for each other they compare their player's base year amount to the other player's full salary. So each team can take back a maximum of 125% plus $100,000 of their player's $5 million base year amount, or $6.35 million. They compare $6.35 million to the other player's full $10 million. $10 million is way too high, so this trade can't be done, even though the players' actual salaries match exactly.

BYC is easily the most confusing thing about the CBA.

[spectre]

Sir spectre, are you sure that s&t players count as BYC even if they would earn more than %120 of their previous salary?

Heh, as sure as I can be! Are you seeing something different?

What would be the downside for Felton to pull a Varejao? We can't pull the QO until next year and we'd only have enough options to get a pure crap PG as a substitute. I'm sure his agent could find someone to help him out just like we helped out AV's agent...3 yrs, full MLE with a PO on the 3rd year.

It'd certainly put us in a bind.

This is assuming the Bobcats' number isn't close to that. Just for discussion's sake o'course...nothing I've seen would even suggest Felton would do that.

[TyHill]

S&T Felton + Nazr for Michael Redd. Dreams

[Marvel]

S&T Felton + Nazr for Michael Redd. Dreams


I wan't Redd badly,constant top 10 scorer in the league,can score in many ways...... he could definitely get us to the playoffs,but the Bucks already have Jennings,Ridnour and possibly Sessions

[spectre]

Redd's always hurt, doesn't play defense and is way overpaid. The Bucks' fans on RGM would gladly give him up for expirings.

Larry Brown would kill him.

[Marvel]

Redd's always hurt, doesn't play defense and is way overpaid. The Bucks' fans on RGM would gladly give him up for expirings.

Larry Brown would kill him.


So is TC but everyone insists on hanging onto his nuts.I've seen Redd play and he may not be the on-ball defender Raja or Battier are but then again that's where TC and weakside defense,rotations come in to play.His salary i agree is a problem but he does have an ETO after next season.

[Lewey]

So is TC but everyone insists on hanging onto his nuts.
Too Funny:biggrin:

[spectre]

So is TC but everyone insists on hanging onto his nuts.I've seen Redd play and he may not be the on-ball defender Raja or Battier are but then again that's where TC and weakside defense,rotations come in to play.His salary i agree is a problem but he does have an ETO after next season.

Just mosey on over to to RGM's Bucks' board. They've seen all his games and they can tell you better than me. The majority would love to dump his contract.

Hanging onto TC's nuts? LOL! Still having a tough time of it eh?

[LB4President]

Correct me if I am wrong, but BYC requires a player who has signed a much larger contract than his rookie salary to be traded for a player whose salary is a certain fraction of the larger salary. I don't know the fraction, but if this is true and say the fraction was one half that means we could sign Felton for 8 million a year and trade him for a 4 million dollar player. That is what I understand (if anyone can correct that please share)

If that is true I was thinking we could sign Felton to the contract he desires and package him with Nazr in order to insure we land a decent contributor or two. I think this possibility remains a long shot due to the fact that negotiations can continue for well over a month. Being in a stalemate isn't good, but then again look at Lamar Odom. This could change very quickly.

[Marvel]

Just mosey on over to to RGM's Bucks' board. They've seen all his games and they can tell you better than me. The majority would love to dump his contract.

Hanging onto TC's nuts? LOL! Still having a tough time of it eh?


Nah nah í just think we could have gotten something better/filled a need or upgraded at the 2,a scorer anything than a Okafor clone.I like Chandler and i'm sure he will have an impact next season, whether or not we make the playoffs............. hmmmmmm not entirely optimistic after that trade.

[dnbman]

Correct me if I am wrong, but BYC requires a player who has signed a much larger contract than his rookie salary to be traded for a player whose salary is a certain fraction of the larger salary. I don't know the fraction, but if this is true and say the fraction was one half that means we could sign Felton for 8 million a year and trade him for a 4 million dollar player. That is what I understand (if anyone can correct that please share)

The BYC amount isn't related to the new contract amount other than the fact that if the contract is for an amount over the BYC number, then the player's trade value becomes the BYC number.

As Spectre posted earlier, to get the BYC amount you:


you take his last season's salary and multiply it by 120%...if it's over that then he'll be BYC. Last year's salary was 4,148,715 x 1.2 = 4,978,458.

[spectre]

LB4 the problem is while we only count the 4 in regards to what we can take back the other team has to take back 8 (actually 125% above or below for both). Without capspace a team can't absorb the difference, and no team has any that I'm aware. Maybe Sacramento.

To get around it the trade has to be big...like in the 12-15 million range...in order for the two deals to be within that 125% of each other. That's why I said we probably could have done it combined with Mek's contract (LOL, I said it somewhere if not here...but anyway). As it stands now we'd have to combine him with say Nazr AND Raja or Vlad...and that's a lot of bad to take with a slightly above average PG. The return would probably be crap.


Nah nah í just think we could have gotten something better/filled a need or upgraded at the 2,a scorer anything than a Okafor clone.I like Chandler and i'm sure he will have an impact next season, whether or not we make the playoffs............. hmmmmmm not entirely optimistic after that trade.

Hey, that's cool...I think we all thought we should have gotten more. It's over now though, so I just want to move on. I understand some will carry a grudge (not you necessarily), but since we're all Bobcats' fans in the end we'll all get behind the team.

[LB4President]

Thanks for clearing that up fellas. Yeah under those conditions a sign and trade seems pretty unlikely, but I would always welcome getting rid of Felton for the right package.

[murphman]

Starting to look like David Lee and Knicks are very very far apart on an extension. Since he and Felton are both restricted does a sign and trade (swap) help these BYE numbers any so that neither team gets screwed over too much?

[spectre]

That's even harder than just S&T Felton.

Say Lee gets 10 million and Felton gets 8 and we're swapping them.

Our outgoing: 4 million...incoming: 10 million
NYK outgoing: 5 million...incoming: 8 million

The team sending out the BYC player can only take half his contract back.

[azfollower]

Honestly, I don't think that any S&T would give us back good value for Felton. We've got all our other starters pretty much locked in, so we're pretty much only going for depth this offseason. Getting rid of Felton seems kind of counterproductive unless there's absolutely no way our FO and he can agree on a reasonable contract.