BCP Most Popular Bobcat Contest Round Two Poll #1

[teej]

Just a reminder, this isn't who has done more for the franchise, or who's the better player, or any of that. It's who YOU LIKE more. Personality, excitement level, etc. If performance is why, then that's cool, but I'd like to see people give reasons other than "he's done more"

[teej]

Twiggy, he was more fun to watch than Mek...

[Walt Cronkite]

Absolutely absurd the disrespect Okafor gets on this board.

[teej]

Absolutely absurd the disrespect Okafor gets on this board.

Just because he was a second overall pick and the franchise's first doesn't give him a pass, he was boring to watch, lacked passion a lot of the time, and didn't give a whole lot of effort. Twiggy electrified the crowd with his dunks, was just as nice or nicer to the fans, and showed a love for the game...We may disrespect OK50, but he disrespected basketball. And in case you're wondering, until I started watching closely, I loved the guy. Still have his jersey.

[Walt Cronkite]

I think the gang mentality has gone overboard. I don't need to make excuses for Okafor (it wouldn't change any minds anyway), but a lot of outsiders really love his game, that's definitely an asset RealGM has. It's just such a grass is greener sort of thing.

Take the dunks criticism, for instance. Guy is always in the top 10 in dunks, this year he's 5th, but everyone always says he doesn't dunk enough. Then someone points out something like, " yea, well he gets blocked a lot too", but so do other dunkers. Mek's inside shots were blocked 11% of the time, just a bit more than the 10% Nene and Brook Lopez, the guys Mek is sandwiched by. No one is under the impression those guys don't dunk enough or are soft.

Ryan Hollins was awful... but sure, he had a personality? He was nice? How much love for the game did he show by being a never improving, athletic freak, long jumper? Guy had no clue what was a good block and a goaltend, but he's the passionate one because he yells.

[SWedd523]

Not to be a wet blanket Walt, but this contest is about the favorite. Nobody is contesting the fact that Mek was a much better player.

He just wasn't anywhere near as exciting as Twiggy. Fans love exciting players and Hollins was just that.

[teej]

Not to be a wet blanket Walt, but this contest is about the favorite. Nobody is contesting the fact that Mek was a much better player.

He just wasn't anywhere near as exciting as Twiggy. Fans love exciting players and Hollins was just that.

Amen. That's what I've been trying to say, just better.

[Walt Cronkite]

Not to be a wet blanket Walt, but this contest is about the favorite. Nobody is contesting the fact that Mek was a much better player.

He just wasn't anywhere near as exciting as Twiggy. Fans love exciting players and Hollins was just that.

Yea man, I have a really firm grasp on reading comprehension, thanks though.

This was a general observation about my experience on the board thus far. I just used Teej's breakdown of why he liked Hollins better than Okafor as an opportunity. I even replied to each of his points directly (ie, electrified the crowd, was nice, showed a passion for the game), but like I wrote yesterday, I didn't expect to change any minds, just commenting on the board's community created fictional history.

[SWedd523]

Highly doubt its fictional. People are bound to have different opinions and they are all respected but there comes a time when you need to move on.

Mek was billed as our franchise player. If that is the best we can do as a "franchise player" then we won't be going anywhere anytime soon.


Sure he was 5th in dunks. 67 less than Dwight, 44 less than a 37 year old Shaq, and only 4 more than a rookie (Lopez). But he wasn't even anywhere near the top 50 in scoring. Players like Ryan Gomes Cuttino Mobley, and Jermaine O'Neal were above him. He was 6th in FG% but wasn't anywhere near the top 50 in attempts.

That says he either wasn't used enough or wasn't assertive enough. Either way, our highest paid player needs to average more than 13ppg and more than 9 attempts. We need more production.


But that's offense. People say he's a top level defender. Okay let's check that out. He was 5th in rebounds at 10 per game. That's solid. However, he was 13th in blocks behind players like Jermaine O'Neal, Lopez, and Sam Dalembert averaged more.

When healthy (and yes I can say that as he has averaged more games a year than Mek), Chandler does enough to replace that defensive proficiency. Offensively, Chandler doesn't do much more than dunk. But if dunking is the only category Mek is near the top in then the same can be said about him, no?


Comparing last year's stats (in which Tyson's production wasn't his best as he was injured):


Mek got blocked more in jump shots, shots in the paint, dunks, and inside shots for a total of 12% to 5%



Chandler had a net 48min production of +6.5 compared to Mek's +0.4



But Chandler only scores off assists right? 74% of Mek's points came from assists while 72% of Chandler's came from assists



While getting less overall rebounds per game, Chandler pulled in a higher % of his teams defensive AND offensive rebounds


Just to name a few. I wouldn't say I'm bashing him. But he's not our best player (as he should be) and he doesn't deserve to be paid as such. He is a nice solid player, sure... but he doesn't bring anything to the table other than 13 points and 10 rebounds and a losing attitude.

Chandler brings in excitement, hustle, tenacity, and toughness. If all he does is get a few highlight dunks a game then I'm fine with that, it'll fire up the crowd and the rest of the team. A hyped crowd and energized team always performs better than some boring ass ho hum let me get a rebound and try and tip it back in.

Mek is the better player, yes. But its pretty obvious that he wasn't going to make us championship material. We got out of owing him 35 million over the remainder of his contract and free up allll of that money to put into building a real championship squad.


And I would also like to add, if this was nothing more than a salary dump, I don't care. That means we're one step closer to being out from under Bob Johnson. Something which I'm sure we are ALL excited about.

[teej]

Mek wins.

And Walt, I think only Jeff41 would say Hollins is a better player. None of the rest of us are disputing that Mek was the top dog. But we liked Twiggy better because of what he brought in intangibles. Does that make sense? On a team where the playoffs were a distant dream until last year, entertainment takes a front seat when watching games, does it not?

[TattoodCats4life]

Put it this way, when Jrich got traded, I didnt tune into the Suns any more than prior, but when Hollins went, I made sure to watch the Mavs any time i could...Him and DJ were good for almost as many completed alley-opps as Felton/Wallce (per minutes played, obviously that combo was out much less minutes than felton/wallace)...but yes overalll Hollins was far more interesting to watch, and frankly more fun to talk to...Meka wasn't the "best" with fans

[Walt Cronkite]

Swedd:

I never read people saying, "Mek doesn't dunk as much as Dwight!" The comments were, "OMG MEK DUNK THE BALL!" No one dunks as much as Dwight, but for the latter, only 4 more players in the entire league did it more. Mek isn't the athlete of Dwight or Shaq, to expect him to dunk as much as either of them is ridiculous.

I fail to see your point about Mek not being a top 50 scorer. Gomes scored .1 ppg more than Mek and the other two players didn't even qualify NBA.com's criteria, so why even mention them? Instead, maybe reference where Nene and Lopez are, since they are, yaknow... relevant. Nene scored 1.4 ppg less than Okafor and he outscored Lopez on a ppg basis.

Those guys must not be used enough or assertive enough as well, huh? Nene must be overpaid as well, since he has almost an identical contract to Okafor...

Blocks are a hustle stat, not an indicator of defensive ability, but even if they were, then why did we trade for a guy that blocks even less? He must be worse at defense!

LOL @ Mek not being a championship caliber player, but admitting that he is also a better player than Chandler. You finally wrote something I can agree with you on in the final paragraph, so well done there. You need to work on your stat crunching game though.

[teej]

The comments were, "OMG MEK DUNK THE BALL!"

That's straight from Larry Brown, just edited. I'm sure you know about that.

Anyone can be a championship player, depending on their role. Mek was not for us (Or NOH for that matter) in his role. TC was for NOH in his role, he just didn't get that far. Do you understand that?

[Walt Cronkite]

That's straight from Larry Brown, just edited. I'm sure you know about that.

Anyone can be a championship player, depending on their role. Mek was not for us (Or NOH for that matter) in his role. TC was for NOH in his role, he just didn't get that far. Do you understand that?

I was just as frustrated when Mek would blow a gimmie instead of just dropping it into the basket, but the misconception that Okafor doesn't dunk enough was rampant before LB said it to him.

What championship did TC win for NOH? Did I miss something? That's one of the arguments I think I've read yet... so no, I definitely don't understand it. That's like saying "Tyson Chandler was a National Champion in the NCAA's, he just didn't go to college."

[teej]

What championship did TC win for NOH? Did I miss something? That's one of the arguments I think I've read yet... so no, I definitely don't understand it. That's like saying "Tyson Chandler was a National Champion in the NCAA's, he just didn't go to college."

I said his role was defined so that he was in a position to win a championship, and didn't they get to the WCF's? That's farther than Mek has gotten in the NBA. Mek's role was to be the best on the team, but he couldn't do that. TC's role was to be a dunk/defense player on a great team, and he did that well.