Felton Signs 1-Year Qualifying Offer

[SWedd523]

Raymond Felton will sign the one-year, $5.5 million qualifying offer from the Charlotte Bobcats, according to multiple sources. The Bobcats had been discussing a long-term deal with Felton, but neither side was eager to budge from their respective positions.
“Raymond is just ready to put the focus back on basketball,” Felton’s agent, Kevin Bradbury, said. “He doesn’t want any of this to affect the team at the start of training camp. So, we’ll look forward to him having a great season, the Bobcats having a great season and we will talk more with the organization when it is appropriate."




Source: RealGM http://basketball.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/61718/20090922/felton_takes_charlottes_qualifying_offer/

[ohara831]

Dont like it. I cannot blame him at all for doing it, it was the smart move on his part. But I hate the idea of losing him next year and getting nothing at all in return - except cap space. But if DJ steps up and shows he can play the starting PG and be effective, the team cannot pay Ray what he is worth and deserves. You want to have 2 quality PGs. But you cannot afford to pay 2 different PG both starting PG money. Just not enough money to go around. If DJ steps up, then Ray will be gone after this season. If DJ cannot step up, then we pay Ray and let DJ be the backup PG and also play some SG at times.

[teej]

Well, I doubt many teams will be able to pay Ray much more if at all more than what he'll get from us next offseason, so I'm not too concerned since he wants to be here...

[azfollower]

All I care is that we got Ray for this year. Hopefully he'll want more after a successful year this year. Playoffs, here we come!

[Scottley Crue]

Well, I doubt many teams will be able to pay Ray much more if at all more than what he'll get from us next offseason, so I'm not too concerned since he wants to be here...
That's what I'm thinking, too. Now, I don't know what either side had on the table but I'm curious to see if he'll get what he's looking for next summer. He could because I bet there will be plenty of people who stay because they can get paid more by their own team (save some that do the sign-and-trade thing). He couldn't because maybe there's a lot of movement that doesn't free things up for him. It will be interesting. However, he really does seem to want to be here, so perhaps that can work in our favor.

[ammofan]

Hoorey but I am also a little sad.......I can see NY or somebody signing him next season :/

[BobcatsAllDay]

The part I like about this most is the fact that he got it out of the way before training camp. I think that shows he is ready to get started with the team and does not want to be a distraction. I hope we can keep him for actions such as this but at the end of the day it's a business so more than likely he (depending on the season results as well) he will walk at the end of the year.

Any chance the Cats trade him (depending upon the season as well) around the deadline?

[WhatTheHeel74]

This is great news, I hope they will continue talks during the season and get something done.

[teej]

I also trust Ray that if he gets an offer from another team next year, like Steve Nash with the Mavs, he'll give the 'Cats FO a chance to match or at least come close enough for him to stay. At least if he's not lying through his teeth, which I highly doubt.

[ammofan]

The part I like about this most is the fact that he got it out of the way before training camp. I think that shows he is ready to get started with the team and does not want to be a distraction. I hope we can keep him for actions such as this but at the end of the day it's a business so more than likely he (depending on the season results as well) he will walk at the end of the year.

Any chance the Cats trade him (depending upon the season as well) around the deadline?

yeah there is definatley a chance. Especially if DJ is good and we feel Ray wont sign here long term.....

[WhatTheHeel74]

I also trust Ray that if he gets an offer from another team next year, like Steve Nash with the Mavs, he'll give the 'Cats FO a chance to match or at least come close enough for him to stay. At least if he's not lying through his teeth, which I highly doubt.

Yeah I agree, I really think Raymond wants to be here in the future to help us make, and continue to make the playoffs.

[Ampsportsduo]

Best news we've gotten all off-season IMO. He's more important to this team's success than any other move that was made or discussed on these boards. Well, except for the GTFO discussion regarding Bob Johnson.

[spectre]

yeah there is definatley a chance. Especially if DJ is good and we feel Ray wont sign here long term.....

Actually there isn't...or at best a very slim one.

By playing on the QO he gets the right to refuse any and all trades and most likely he would...he'd lose all Bird Rights which would limit him in both years and raises on his next contract.

DJ has nothing to do with this. If he did suddenly become great this year at worst we'd still have a TRADABLE asset with Felton. Now we run a big risk of getting nothing. Even if there's a S&T next summer the best we'd probably get is a pittance along with a trade exception (like we'd use that).

I think the FO screwed up if he indeed signs the QO. IMO if a MLE type deal would have gotten it done they should have done it in the end. In UFA Ariza got that and CV got 7 per year...and both are less talents than Felton.

[Keetch]

Hell its too bad we can't sign them all to one year contracts :P let'im play their butts off.

[amstamey]

Hey guys, long time lurker on the boards...best Bobcats info on the net, I had to register and post a reply to this. I saw the first post was at around 6PM about Ray Ray signing the qualifying offer....and odds would have it that my first time actually meeting him and talking to him in person was around 7PM downtown at the ATM beside the Capitol Grill, ironic. Nice guy though, it made my day. Sorry if this seems like non-sense but it was just to much irony to stay put, I hope to be able to contribute something useful to the board now that I have come out of my shell.

[ziggy]

Hey guys, long time lurker on the boards...best Bobcats info on the net, I had to register and post a reply to this. I saw the first post was at around 6PM about Ray Ray signing the qualifying offer....and odds would have it that my first time actually meeting him and talking to him in person was around 7PM downtown at the ATM beside the Capitol Grill, ironic. Nice guy though, it made my day. Sorry if this seems like non-sense but it was just to much irony to stay put, I hope to be able to contribute something useful to the board now that I have come out of my shell.
Welcome to BCP amstamey :biggrin:

[spectre]

Good to have you aboard amstamey!

Couple of thoughts from Dime:

Dime Mag (http://dimemag.com/2009/09/breaking-news-ray-felton-re-signs-with-charlotte/)


Personally, I’ve never seen Felton as a star point guard in the League, but definitely one with potential. He has definitely held his own since he got to the NBA and was an integral part of Charlotte’s playoff run last season. If he can continue to coexist with Augustin in the backcourt and the role players can step up, it was smart for the Bobcats to give him another year to prove his worth before they invest in him long-term.Dime Mag (http://dimemag.com/2009/09/bobcats-finish-their-playoff-puzzle-another-challenge-for-jordan/)


Ray Felton’s objective should be obvious to anyone who’s been paying attention to this summer of free agency: Sometime around January/February, Ray wants to be in the All-Star conversation, setting himself up lovely for a fatter contract in 2010, and as icing on the cake, making everyone wonder just why the hell it took so long for somebody to get him signed in the first place. Felton agreed to the Bobcats’ one-year qualifying offer yesterday ($5.5 million) (http://dimemag.com/2009/09/breaking-news-ray-felton-re-signs-with-charlotte/), setting Charlotte up for another run at getting that elusive first-ever playoff berth with Felton and D.J. Augustin at the point, Raja Bell/Gerald Henderson at the two, Gerald Wallace at the three, Boris Diaw (http://dimemag.com/2009/09/the-nbas-30-best-go-to-players-29-boris-diaw/) at the four, Tyson Chandler in the middle and Alexis Ajinca getting cramps from sitting down for extended periods of time. With Larry Brown calling the shots, is that a playoff team’s rotation?

[ballwhore]

The quote from Dime magazine is no different from what I been saying he wants all star money. Like I said in other post Felton is not going to settle for being fourth highest paid (7mil per) on this team regardless of the economy. Look for the numbers to come out he turned down 8 mil per.

[spectre]

The quote from Dime magazine is no different from what I been saying he wants all star money. Like I said in other post Felton is not going to settle for being fourth highest paid (7mil per) on this team regardless of the economy. Look for the numbers to come out he turned down 8 mil per.

I totally missed where it said he was wanting 12 million a year.

Dime is quoting the Baseline author...and that looks suspiciously like the same number Bonnell threw out last week that would "get it done".

Looks to me like you're full of it. Big surprise there.

[Dcarnys]

Well we can keep Felton for another year and let DJ get adjusted to start next year or later.

[SCBobcat]

As we know the job of the coach is to win each game as it is played, while the GM's job is to keep a competitive collection of talent within the financial bounds set for him from season to season.
Suspending that parameter, what are the odds this QO signing pushes DJ into the starter role sooner than he otherwise would get there? It would be nice to really hand DJ the reigns before it is too late and Felton has moved on. If we decide he is our future, great and if not we make plans to retain Ray. At the same time, Raymond in a backup role would have fewer opportunities to increase his price tag and possibly a better chance of us retaining him inexpensively in a Jason Terry type of role.
The only way I see this hapening is if we are not competitive by the Allstar break. But it is interesting to think about.
As a fan, do you think more like a coach or a GM? Would you make a slightly superior player a backup because he may not be around long-term, thereby developing your long-term talent faster while keeping the value down on the superior talent in case you decide to try again to sign him to an extension?

[murphman]

Still nothing from teh Observer on this? Heck, even Felton's agent has confirmed it on his twitter account.

[Muttley]

Still nothing from teh Observer on this? Heck, even Felton's agent has confirmed it on his twitter account.
He's got something up now, but still, that's quite a lag. Keep up the quality, Rick!

[Scottley Crue]

Well now, if he was actually offered what the Sporting News suggested ($7.5 mil/year over 5 years) and turned it down, then I think that's stretching it a bit. I can back the FO if that's what was offered and turned down. I really like what Felton brings to the team, but what the FO supposedly offered is right near the top of what I'd settle signing him for.

[spectre]

Well now, if he was actually offered what the Sporting News suggested ($7.5 mil/year over 5 years) and turned it down, then I think that's stretching it a bit. I can back the FO if that's what was offered and turned down. I really like what Felton brings to the team, but what the FO supposedly offered is right near the top of what I'd settle signing him for.

I totally agree.

Thing is that's contradicting what Bonnell said the other week. I asked about that in his blog, but most likely it will piss him off as he'll take it as questioning what he said.

[teej]

As we know the job of the coach is to win each game as it is played, while the GM's job is to keep a competitive collection of talent within the financial bounds set for him from season to season.
Suspending that parameter, what are the odds this QO signing pushes DJ into the starter role sooner than he otherwise would get there? It would be nice to really hand DJ the reigns before it is too late and Felton has moved on. If we decide he is our future, great and if not we make plans to retain Ray. At the same time, Raymond in a backup role would have fewer opportunities to increase his price tag and possibly a better chance of us retaining him inexpensively in a Jason Terry type of role.
The only way I see this hapening is if we are not competitive by the Allstar break. But it is interesting to think about.
As a fan, do you think more like a coach or a GM? Would you make a slightly superior player a backup because he may not be around long-term, thereby developing your long-term talent faster while keeping the value down on the superior talent in case you decide to try again to sign him to an extension?

I usually think more like a GM, because if I give someone else the best players possible for the money, they can do their job to the best of their abilities. But I doubt Ray will be in a backup role, I really could see DJ and Raja splitting time, but not Ray.

And if Ray turned down 7.5/year, he's fucking stupid.

[chabber]

If that was the number then I'm even more happy we ended up with the QO. That was a little above my tops for him before the salary cap dropped. I would have only signed him to something around the MLE or lower.
I know it would have sucked that there would be 3 guys (Diop, Vlade, Nazr)on the team making more than him that he could runs circles around, but that's just the way it is. We didn't give those other guys their deals even if we were bone headed enough to trade for them.

[ohara831]

Welcome Amstamey! Looking forward to reading your posts!

I did not read anywhere that Ray was offered $7.5 for 5 years and turned it down. If he did, then he's gonna take a beating on this Board every time he goofs. Hopefully that was just an inaccurate rumor. Anyone seen where this is posted from a reliable source?

http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/The_Baseline/entry/view/35933/bobcats,_felton_to_settle_on_1-year_deal

Damn. Just, wow, if this is true.

[TattoodCats4life]

4 things could happen here.

1. Felton plays the rest of the year splitting time with DJ as the starter so DJ can get used to it. We then make an attempt to retain felton next year, maybe losing him for nothing. This is a slim chance I think, I doubt the FO will want to let ray walk free and clear (albeit we could use the cap room).

2. Ray has a near all star season, bring us to the second round, we make him a big offer (and maybe regret it). Again less than likely.

3. Ray is injured before the all star break, we let him rehab, and retain him cheap/short term next year to see how he does after coming back (VERY unlikely with ray's hero complex).

4. Ray starts the first 8-10 games, DJ starts showing him up and getting more of the minutes, then gets to start in NOLA and maybe dallas (following larry's start at 'home' credo), showing he can keep up with the better PGs of the league. We trade Ray near the deadline for whatever we might need at that point, or maybe to a team with cap room for a first rounder. I think this is the most likely situation and if we get something worthwhile I'm fine with it. BBall is a business and making money comes with winning, business is business and trade will/do happen to home town favorites.

[westbrook08]

I would not panic.I think this actually makes sense for both sides.You have to look at the fact that andre miller and jason kidd both basically got the mid level and the last hope for felton's camp was that someone would sign ramon sessions to a big contract to raise leverage for his agent since those two guys have been compared alot in terms of free agency.Sessions ended up getting 3.8 million year and he signed at that rate for four years.At that point I would doubt the bobcats offered felton anything over the full mid-level.And why would they? No one else is going to pay him more than that right now.I think this is good because now if ray improves more he can legitimately raise his value or if his value is about the same next offseason he will have no choice but to accept that he will have to take less and we will have more flexibility long term.I think both sides were right to do what they did and I expect this to be worked out in a good natured way next summer.

[spectre]

4. Ray starts the first 8-10 games, DJ starts showing him up and getting more of the minutes, then gets to start in NOLA and maybe dallas (following larry's start at 'home' credo), showing he can keep up with the better PGs of the league. We trade Ray near the deadline for whatever we might need at that point, or maybe to a team with cap room for a first rounder. I think this is the most likely situation and if we get something worthwhile I'm fine with it. BBall is a business and making money comes with winning, business is business and trade will/do happen to home town favorites.

Trading Felton is next to impossible.

Maybe if I repeat that enough people will start to believe it!

[spectre]

I would not panic.I think this actually makes sense for both sides.You have to look at the fact that andre miller and jason kidd both basically got the mid level and the last hope for felton's camp was that someone would sign ramon sessions to a big contract to raise leverage for his agent since those two guys have been compared alot in terms of free agency.Sessions ended up getting 3.8 million year and he signed at that rate for four years.At that point I would doubt the bobcats offered felton anything over the full mid-level.And why would they? No one else is going to pay him more than that right now.I think this is good because now if ray improves more he can legitimately raise his value or if his value is about the same next offseason he will have no choice but to accept that he will have to take less and we will have more flexibility long term.I think both sides were right to do what they did and I expect this to be worked out in a good natured way next summer.

Sessions & Felton are nothing alike except that both were RFAs.

*Sessions had a 1 million QO...Felton had one at 5.5

*Sessions was under the Arenas Provision...meaning if he took that QO he would ONCE AGAIN be an RFA one year later. This is significant because it took away the threat of being a UFA in a year when a lot of teams will have capspace. Felton has that going for him.

*Bucks did not want him back; coach didn't like him.

The rest I can't really argue with. I can see a "bad" scenario where he takes another team's offer next season and we get nothing...DJ isn't ready to take over Larry Brown's team (that's different than starting in say NY or GSW) and we're stuck with bringing in Anthony Carter to start next season.

I like your scenario way better.

[GoBobs]

I thought 5 yrs 30 mil could have worked for everyone. If Felton wants more he needs to prove he can be a star in this league

[Keetch]

If Felton can raise his shooting % to 45% and become a better distributer at crunch-times, THEN he can make higher demands. Not likely.

[etothet]

Welcome Amstamey! Looking forward to reading your posts!

I did not read anywhere that Ray was offered $7.5 for 5 years and turned it down. If he did, then he's gonna take a beating on this Board every time he goofs. Hopefully that was just an inaccurate rumor. Anyone seen where this is posted from a reliable source?

http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/The_Baseline/entry/view/35933/bobcats,_felton_to_settle_on_1-year_deal

Damn. Just, wow, if this is true.

The statement "it is believed" that amount was somewhat like the Marvin Williams deal. That is what the article states. That is the key. We don't know what the offer was. There were other articles that stated that Ray would sign for 7 million. I cannot believe that the FO offered him 7.5 million for 5 years and he did not sign. There are a lot of people guessing.

[davcbow]

The quote from Dime magazine is no different from what I been saying he wants all star money. Like I said in other post Felton is not going to settle for being fourth highest paid (7mil per) on this team regardless of the economy. Look for the numbers to come out he turned down 8 mil per.


It speaks!!!!!:cool:

[Ghost Kat]

One year.... I'm happy with that. It will be good to have him back. I still think DJ should be starting and will be starting. But it really doesn't matter. They both can win with this team LB has built. Been a fan since day one, good times and mostly bad ones. I'm so proud of this team now and they haven't play'd a preseason game yet. This finally looks like a real team. Only hole is at PF but it seems Tyson, Ajinca, UPS, or even Wallace can fill in when needed. Love the new Jersey's too, I can't wait.

Let's Go Cat's!!!

[teej]

One year.... I'm happy with that. It will be good to have him back. I still think DJ should be starting and will be starting. But it really doesn't matter. They both can win with this team LB has built. Been a fan since day one, good times and mostly bad ones. I'm so proud of this team now and they haven't play'd a preseason game yet. This finally looks like a real team. Only hole is at PF but it seems Tyson, Ajinca, UPS, or even Wallace can fill in when needed. Love the new Jersey's too, I can't wait.

Let's Go Cat's!!!

If you're optimstic, then there's no excuse for anyone to be pessimistic. So when is the bandwagon closing this year?

[spectre]

Speed merchants: NBA's 10 fastest players - Fox Sports (http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/pgStory?contentId=9932996#sport=NBA&photo=9930574)



Honorable mention: Will Bynum, Mike Conley, Monta Ellis, Raymond Felton, Allen Iverson, Dwyane Wade, Russell Westbrook, Louis Williams.

[teej]

^DJ is faster I think?

[spectre]

^DJ is faster I think?

Looking at the combine results:

DJ:

Sprint...3.07
Agility...11.27

Felton:

Sprint...3.06
Agility...10.50

Regarding that agility number, I ran across this blurb about Jordan Hill from the last draft:


Hill was up and down at the combine. On one hand, his standing reach (9’0”), body fat (6%), and maximum height (11’11”) were impressive. His 3.3 sprint was actually faster than several wing players as well. On the other, he recorded the worst agility score at the combineHis agility score? 12.23

Is that related to DJ and his weakness in stopping dribble penetration?

Fitness Tests for the NBA Draft (http://www.topendsports.com/sport/basketball/testing-nba-draft.htm)


Agility is very important in basketball, and is measured using the lane agility test at the NBA camp. The Lane Agility test measures how fast a player moves laterally around the key. See more about agility testing. Testing Agility (http://www.topendsports.com/testing/agility-about.htm)


Agility is the ability to change body position or direction of the body rapidly. This ability is measured with running tests that require the subject to turn or start and stop. Agility is also influenced by balance, coordination, position of center of gravity, running speed and skill. Agility can be improved by practicing specifically for a sport but also by improving the specific individual elements of speed, balance, power and co-ordination.

Agility is always a difficult area to test. The agility demands for different sports is very specific, in terms of the speed and direction of turning, and includes extra factors like controlling a ball or holding a stick. Many tests involve complex movements, what is actually being measured may not be clear, and a good score may hide deficiencies in some aspect of agility.
http://www.topendsports.com/testing/images/illinois.gif

[BRNC]

spectre...I think agility is more relevant to "D"...it is one of the reasons guys like R. Bell can stay in the league for a long time...he (Bell) never had great foot speed but he was very agile which allowed him to become a very good defender...

I doubt DJ (poor agility for his position coupled with being small) ever becomes anything but an average (at best) defender...I like the guy but I think his ability to develop defensively is very limited...

[teej]

spectre...I think agility is more relevant to "D"...it is one of the reasons guys like R. Bell can stay in the league for a long time...he (Bell) never had great foot speed but he was very agile which allowed him to become a very good defender...

Which means Spectre is all over that stat. But I was talking about up-and-down the court speed, DJ, Lexy, and Gerald seemed in the top, Ray just below. But that may just be me.


I doubt DJ (poor agility for his position coupled with being small) ever becomes anything but an average (at best) defender...I like the guy but I think his ability to develop defensively is very limited...

He's a poor man's AI...

[spectre]

Which means Spectre is all over that stat. But I was talking about up-and-down the court speed, DJ, Lexy, and Gerald seemed in the top, Ray just below. But that may just be me.

Damn right I am. We've discussed that flaw with DJ throughout last season and I really want him to improve that; stopping dribble penetration will make or break your D. If he can't improve because of physical limitations then I don't know what to think.

Isn't up and down the sprint? If that's the case then Felton was 0.01 better...which really means they're about equal.

Or are you referring to something else?

[teej]

Damn right I am. We've discussed that flaw with DJ throughout last season and I really want him to improve that; stopping dribble penetration will make or break your D. If he can't improve because of physical limitations then I don't know what to think.

Isn't up and down the sprint? If that's the case then Felton was 0.01 better...which really means they're about equal.

Or are you referring to something else?

I'm talking about in-game, with my eyes. DJ just seemed faster. Maybe he just gave more effort??

And isn't the sprint just one way anyway? IDK, I don't look at the combine.

[davcbow]

Looking at the combine results:

DJ:

Sprint...3.07
Agility...11.27

Felton:

Sprint...3.06
Agility...10.50

Regarding that agility number, I ran across this blurb about Jordan Hill from the last draft:

His agility score? 12.23

Is that related to DJ and his weakness in stopping dribble penetration?

Fitness Tests for the NBA Draft (http://www.topendsports.com/sport/basketball/testing-nba-draft.htm)

Testing Agility (http://www.topendsports.com/testing/agility-about.htm)


http://www.topendsports.com/testing/images/illinois.gif


Spectre thats some good info for everyone to know...

BRNC I think that DJ's offensive skills will over come any of his defensive short comings but I still think DJ can be good on D too...:cool:

[Chef]

the problem with the test is that it is not really that relevant to defense. the case can be made to offense more than defense. the test is a set pattern which you know which way you are going. defense is the opposite. you are reacting. i believe the test can help determine if someone has good body awareness but not agility in a basketball sense. good defenders are incredibly quick but are good at defense. too often defense gets pegged as not requiring talent but who works harder. a good defender (chris paul) is lightening quick but understands how basketball is played and anticipates opponents moves/passes based on tendancies and options. the agility test does a better job with offense because on offense you know what you are going to do/where you are going.

[dnbman]

I'm talking about in-game, with my eyes. DJ just seemed faster. Maybe he just gave more effort??

DJ faster than Felton? I think it might just be his diminutive size. Felton is pretty darn fast.

[TheBeagle]

Welcome Amstamey! Looking forward to reading your posts!

I did not read anywhere that Ray was offered $7.5 for 5 years and turned it down. If he did, then he's gonna take a beating on this Board every time he goofs. Hopefully that was just an inaccurate rumor. Anyone seen where this is posted from a reliable source?

http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/The_Baseline/entry/view/35933/bobcats,_felton_to_settle_on_1-year_deal

Damn. Just, wow, if this is true.

yeah, if that proposal is true, raymond's been talking out of his ass about wanting to stay here, or he's a moron.

still, it's good to get him onboard this season, obviously, and have this drama behind us til next summer.

[Ghost Kat]

Felton has always been fast from one end of the basket to the other. A.I. on the other hand is fast period. Wade plays that way too. Felton? Not so much. D.J. seems just as fast end to end but IMO seems a little more in control.

About D.J's defensive. Come on ya'll...He was a rookie PG. He wasn't that bad and it's something he already said he was working on.

[BRNC]

dav...Offense is fine when it is on...a defensive player is always "on"...I'd rather have a good defensive player with an adequate offensive game so when the "O" is off at least he can stop (or has the ability) his assignment...I've seen too many "limited" defensive players burned constantly from those limitations without any ability to overcome "average" defensive ability with a consistently better offensive game...

[spectre]

What BRNC said.

[davcbow]

dav...Offense is fine when it is on...a defensive player is always "on"...I'd rather have a good defensive player with an adequate offensive game so when the "O" is off at least he can stop (or has the ability) his assignment...I've seen too many "limited" defensive players burned constantly from those limitations without any ability to overcome "average" defensive ability with a consistently better offensive game...


You still have to score more points than your opponents in most of the games... Without a decent offense it is very difficult to do, look at last season for example....
I do agree that a good defense is the way to start a winning team but scoring points is key too... :cool:

[BRNC]

dav...that's why I qualified by saying I'd want a guy with an adequate (and I mean NBA level) offensive game....this is me...I'd rather have 5 superior defensive players all with "adequate" offensive games that the opposite...the chances your guys score more than the other team is higher since they have to shut down all your guys also...but back to DJ in particular...I think he will always be limited defensively and will not be able (night in/night out) overcome those limitations with his offense unless he comes off the bech and is always playing against the other teams back-up PG...in other wors I see him as a good back-up but not a starter...hope I'm wrong but at this point that's what I see...and IMO it was a high pick for a back-up...particularly with other needs to fill and so many starting PG options (which we all knew about) in this years draft...I like DJ but not the pick I would have made last year...

[davcbow]

I'd rather have 5 superior defensive players all with "adequate" offensive games that the opposite...the chances your guys score more than the other team is higher since they have to shut down all your guys also...

We both agree on this and are saying the same thing but in different words...


DJ in particular...I think he will always be limited defensively and will not be able (night in/night out) overcome those limitations with his offense unless he comes off the bech and is always playing against the other teams back-up PG...in other wors I see him as a good back-up but not a starter...hope I'm wrong but at this point that's what I see...

He's only going onto his 2nd year so I think its too early to make that call about him.
You may be right about him but you also may be wrong....:cool:

[BRNC]

dav...in this particular case I'd rather be wrong...LOL

PS...sorry for the spelling errors in my other post...rushed and did not edit before I had to leave...

[Ghost Kat]

You still have to score more points than your opponents in most of the games... Without a decent offense it is very difficult to do, look at last season for example....
I do agree that a good defense is the way to start a winning team but scoring points is key too... :cool:

What davcbow said.

[dnbman]

I think our offensive woes are a bit overstated, anyhow. We struggled through a bunch of trades and injuries last year and a new, demanding coach. It's true we don't have a definitive go-to guy, but we have a lot of guys that can score.

Given a less volatile year with clear expectations from Brown, I think the team will gel more and player more efficient and productive offensively.

[110oldeast]

I'll say it again. Check Larry Brown's scoring numbers from his championship teams. Folks, he is always near the top in defensive numbers and near the bottom in offensive numbers. It has a lot to do with the pace. Anyway, the root of what he looks for is defensive stops.

Furthermore, let's no pretend that Felton is an offensive drain that the team must overcome. Out of LB's pgs, Chauncey Billups is the one guy who played pg for him that you would identify as a better scorer. And he barely shot 40% from the field, including when the year they won the Finals and he was Finals MVP. The thing they all had in common was that they were the head of the defense and most of the time solid distributors. Now folks can disagree with LB's past, but this is the reality of it.

Please, the next time we decide to reference our scoring numbers, please go back and pull up Detroit's scoring numbers. I would not be shocked if we averaged more points per game last year than they did. And that it is with us not assembling our team until 30-40% of the season was over.

[teej]

Furthermore, let's no pretend that Felton is an offensive drain that the team must overcome. Out of LB's pgs, Chauncey Billups is the one guy who played pg for him that you would identify as a better scorer. And he barely shot 40% from the field, including when the year they won the Finals and he was Finals MVP. The thing they all had in common was that they were the head of the defense and most of the time solid distributors. Now folks can disagree with LB's past, but this is the reality of it.

That was also his only Finals win, which is why I think Felton needs to be like Chauncey. But I agree with what you're saying, most people just don't like Larry ball, since it's not fun to watch

[BRNC]

It is not (the offense) very pretty to watch...but it is totally dependent on defense...I was still somewhat confused last year about our lack of scoring because we had/have players that can score...I'm still of the opinion we need an upgrade at offense coach not so much players....the lack of creativity (on too many occasions) hurt the team offensively....we have the players just not the offensive game plan IMO...

[dnbman]

It is not (the offense) very pretty to watch...but it is totally dependent on defense...I was still somewhat confused last year about our lack of scoring because we had/have players that can score...I'm still of the opinion we need an upgrade at offense coach not so much players....the lack of creativity (on too many occasions) hurt the team offensively....we have the players just not the offensive game plan IMO...

Part of the problem was the inability to finish around the basket. Now that we have a bigger, more efficient finisher, I think that might help us. Also, in having a more established offensive scheme, hopefully that will cut down on ill advised perimeter shots.

[BRNC]

I agree on the finisher...but the lack of motion (think Mussleman and Houston here) leaves no one really open too often...again IMO we need a more motion oriented offense since we have athletic players and I did not see that last year...Houston has very good defensive players (as we do) and motion offense would play to our strengths...these half court set plays did not play to our strengths...just the opposite...

[dnbman]

I agree on the finisher...but the lack of motion (think Mussleman and Houston here) leaves no one really open too often...again IMO we need a more motion oriented offense since we have athletic players and I did not see that last year...Houston has very good defensive players (as we do) and motion offense would play to our strengths...these half court set plays did not play to our strengths...just the opposite...

Completely agree. In fact, the movement in the first month was a thing of beauty, we just didn't have the right horses.

I think with all of the trades and injuries, it stalled that offense a bit. However, we need to move around. In fact, I think Wallace will be a much more effective player when he's roving around and making cuts rather than standing on the perimeter.

[BRNC]

I totally agree...we now have the athletes...I just hope we use the motion...IMO if we do points will not be a problem as they were last year...

[110oldeast]

Fellas,

In Detroit's championship year, they averaged 89.5 pts per game.

The next year they went to the Finals and lost to the Spurs they averaged 96.8.

Last year, we averaged right in between at 93.6 pts per game and 95.2 after Raja and Diaw came to the team.

I am hoping for our offense to improve to, but you don't put up 100 per game unless you are willing to get out on the break and run.

Now if we are looking at trading Raja as another thread mentions and becoming a team with athletes and no wing shooters (bad idea in today's NBA), then we better be pushing the ball in transition. Athletic teams, with mediocre wing shooting need to be out on the break, b/c they tend to struggle in the halfcourt. See what happened to Atlanta and Philly in the playoffs. There's a reason they went after Korver hard.

[dnbman]

Fellas,

In Detroit's championship year, they averaged 89.5 pts per game.

The next year they went to the Finals and lost to the Spurs they averaged 96.8.

Last year, we averaged right in between at 93.6 pts per game and 95.2 after Raja and Diaw came to the team.

I am hoping for our offense to improve to, but you don't put up 100 per game unless you are willing to get out on the break and run.

Now if we are looking at trading Raja as another thread mentions and becoming a team with athletes and no wing shooters (bad idea in today's NBA), then we better be pushing the ball in transition. Athletic teams, with mediocre wing shooting need to be out on the break, b/c they tend to struggle in the halfcourt. See what happened to Atlanta and Philly in the playoffs. There's a reason they went after Korver hard.

Not sure about the Raja bit, but those that know are already on board with the defensive philosophy. A couple of us were just talking about how we could still be a better offensive team without any changes in the roster.

As for Raja, at least Flip gives us something in case Raja leaves.

[110oldeast]

No prob.

My point was just that Detroit had 2 pretty solid offensive teams, one of which averaged 6 less points per game than we did once Raja and Boris arrived and another Finals rep with serious talent who averaged about 1.4 more points per game.

My point was LB's slow and methodical halfcourt style is gonna put up low numbers on offense and defense.

[Ghost Kat]

No prob.

My point was just that Detroit had 2 pretty solid offensive teams, one of which averaged 6 less points per game than we did once Raja and Boris arrived and another Finals rep with serious talent who averaged about 1.4 more points per game.

My point was LB's slow and methodical halfcourt style is gonna put up low numbers on offense and defense.

How many of those players from motown have been to an allstar game? How many of our players have been to an allstar game? The point of those questions is Detroit may have play'd defense but they still had star power. They still had players that could score in crunch time. The Bobcats now have people that can score. Not go to guys, But people that can score. But we lost who knows how many games by 5 pts or less last year. We couldn't score, We may have stopped them from scoring but when it counted the Cats fell short. Defense only stops the other team from scoring, you still need more points then the other team to win the game.

[Big Krash]

Every offseason a team makes a move or adds a contract that no one out there really saw. Charlotte is positioning itself to be the loosing team. Look at a team like Portland. They are a young team, with probably the best young talent in all of Basketball. The best we have seen so far of Greg Ogden is a guy who after messing an entire season gave you 9 and 8 in backup minutes on a playoff team. Meaning, as a number one pick, he didn't go to some horrid franchise where the bulk of the first half plays would be designed to get him in rhtym. This isn't Portlands fault, they are better than even they thought they would be. The pressure is no on them to win like nearly every other none LA/San Antonio team in the West. Over the next season, Greg, with more confidence and mobility gets closer to an easy 15 and 11 with 2 blocks. But what if Andre Miller doesn't work out? They have the talent and the contracts to move a Miller and a Travis Outlaw and over Raymond Felton the same ridiculous money they had earmarked for Turkoloo. At least once a summer teams do it. The biggest names aren't going to worse teams. But there are alot of 16 point guys who will get picked up by the Portland's and Sacremento's and Minnesota's. And you never know what the good teams will do to stay at that level. Charlotte is putting it's rear out there...

[spectre]

How many of those players from motown have been to an allstar game? How many of our players have been to an allstar game? The point of those questions is Detroit may have play'd defense but they still had star power. They still had players that could score in crunch time. The Bobcats now have people that can score. Not go to guys, But people that can score. But we lost who knows how many games by 5 pts or less last year. We couldn't score, We may have stopped them from scoring but when it counted the Cats fell short. Defense only stops the other team from scoring, you still need more points then the other team to win the game.

I just ran across some stuff on that Detroit squad done by another team's blog...while it's still slow I guess I can make it into it's own thread.

[davcbow]

Originally Posted by CarolinaKat http://www.bobcatsplanet.com/vb/images/onex/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.bobcatsplanet.com/vb/showthread.php?p=137013#post137013)
How many of those players from motown have been to an allstar game? How many of our players have been to an allstar game? The point of those questions is Detroit may have play'd defense but they still had star power. They still had players that could score in crunch time. The Bobcats now have people that can score. Not go to guys, But people that can score. But we lost who knows how many games by 5 pts or less last year. We couldn't score, We may have stopped them from scoring but when it counted the Cats fell short. Defense only stops the other team from scoring, you still need more points then the other team to win the game.


Where have I heard this?

Oh yeah thats what I keep saying over and over and over and over.....:cool:

[Ghost Kat]

I'm in total agreement about this team needing to score more points. The Cats have always play'd reasonably good defense. But they never have been able to score when it counted. That problem gets kicked a couple more times since we have a starting PG who can't shoot but loves to take over in crunch time.

[davcbow]

I'm in total agreement about this team needing to score more points. The Cats have always play'd reasonably good defense. But they never have been able to score when it counted. That problem gets kicked a couple more times since we have a starting PG who can't shoot but loves to take over in crunch time.


Heard that! :cool:

[etothet]

I think LB has a say about who takes over at crunch time. That point guard you speak of was an important part of the improvement the team experienced last year. Of course he is a 40 percent shooter but he brings other things to the table. He was not always the reason the bobcats failed at crunch time. I do feel that Ray needs to make better decisions and he did improve in that area last year. But if he will improve his decision making then the shooting percentage will go up and turnovers will decrease. As far as crunch time, that would be LB and the coaching staff's call. Allen Iverson has a career fg percentage of 42% and had one year of 38% and another of 39%. He is a nine time NBA all-star.





I'm in total agreement about this team needing to score more points. The Cats have always play'd reasonably good defense. But they never have been able to score when it counted. That problem gets kicked a couple more times since we have a starting PG who can't shoot but loves to take over in crunch time.

[davcbow]

I think LB has a say about who takes over at crunch time. That point guard you speak of was an important part of the improvement the team experienced last year. Of course he is a 40 percent shooter but he brings other things to the table. He was not always the reason the bobcats failed at crunch time. I do feel that Ray needs to make better decisions and he did improve in that area last year. But if he will improve his decision making then the shooting percentage will go up and turnovers will decrease. As far as crunch time, that would be LB and the coaching staff's call. Allen Iverson has a career fg percentage of 42% and had one year of 38% and another of 39%. He is a nine time NBA all-star.


That was only because we really didnt have no one else to shoot since no one else that can shoot would be on the floor during that time in the game. In other words "had no better option"...:cool:

[Ghost Kat]

It's an on going theme here on this site that Felton play's the hero role for this team. With his shooting %, He's just as much a hero as Ricky Bobby at this point. Yes, Felton offers other things then his shooting. But when you're the one taking the big shot at "crunch time" , you better be able to make it. I will agree Felton at times might have been the best option. He takes alot of step back fade away shots. Plus needless turn overs, Felton is not a go to guy.

[WarioVsMooChicken]

People seem to forget that even Lebron and Kobe only make slightly more than a third of their last second shots. You can't expect ANYONE to make them on a constant basis

[Ghost Kat]

People seem to forget that even Lebron and Kobe only make slightly more than a third of their last second shots. You can't expect ANYONE to make them on a constant basis


Those people usually have atleast two people on them for those shots.Felton just takes bad shots. No double or triple team, Just bad shots.

[Muttley]

That was only because we really didnt have no one else to shoot since no one else that can shoot would be on the floor during that time in the game. In other words "had no better option"...:cool:

This brings up an interesting thought. Flip can shoot and Raja's a shooter. Perhaps they're our guards at the end of close games?

[davcbow]

This brings up an interesting thought. Flip can shoot and Raja's a shooter. Perhaps they're our guards at the end of close games?

Its a possibility....:cool:

[teej]

This brings up an interesting thought. Flip can shoot and Raja's a shooter. Perhaps they're our guards at the end of close games?

I don't know if I like that...

[etothet]

Those people usually have atleast two people on them for those shots.Felton just takes bad shots. No double or triple team, Just bad shots.

I thought overall he did well last year. Made one against Detroit to win. Made critical free throws down the stretch in some games. Made some shots to keep us alive in others. Of course he took some bad shots but I saw improvement from his 3rd year in the league. I am more concerned about his shot selection before crunch. After a year under LB, he will improve even more this year. Maybe LB will not call plays for Ray at crunch. That is the coaching staff's decision. I don't understand what you are saying about the double team, triple team stuff.

[SWedd523]

Source: Felton Turned Down Long-Term Deal



Bobcats point guard Raymond Felton turned down a long-term contract offer from the team, sources told Rick Bonnell of the Charlotte Observer.

The deal reportedly would have paid Felton roughly $7 million annually.

Unless Felton sees a huge improvement in his play this season, it appears unlikely that another team would offer him more than that next summer.

[Scottley Crue]

I saw that this morning, too. I think that offer is more than fair and like Bonnell says, unless he starts tearing the league up, I find it very difficult to see him topping that. Maybe he will, but he's going to have to really show something (like a reliable jumper) to net more than $7 Mil a year. If he really thinks he's worth that much in this market then, while I like what he brings to the team, let someone else pay him big money.

[Fred Williamson]

This was already posted weeks ago

[spectre]

Is Bonnell's source right this time or was he right 2 weeks ago?

I don't buy it.

However...if he did turn that down I don't think he was stupid to do it as he can probably get the same next season (I showed earlier somewhere that's right at the full MLE)...but it would say something about his really wanting to stay with this team no matter what.

[Ghost Kat]

It's funny how with DJ waiting in the wings Felton still over estimates his worth. 7 mil a yr sounds very fair for a multi yr deal. If Felton really wanted to be in charlotte, Why not take the deal?

[teej]

As usual, I think Bonnell's source is wrong...

[TOOT DADDY]

Bonnell is wrong? Well here on the front page there is a Dime magazine article that Iverson to the Bobcats was a done deal. That was bullsh#t. Felton turned down a long term contract. Hell get over the home town Mr. Goodie two shoes never wants to leave. In the end it's about the money. While Ballwhore may have been a little over on the asking price I understood his point on Felton not wanting to be the fourth highest paid. So if he balked at 7 million what did he want 8 million? I am thinking 9 to 10 million is what he wants. A Ben Gordon type contract. Anyway, to me Bonnell is just a credible as Dime magazine.

[dnbman]

Assuming it's true, I like that he turned it down from perspective of a Bobcat fan.

Yeah, we stand the chance of losing him next year without compensation. However, if DJ emerges as the clear starter of the future, we're going to have to pay him. Keeping some money in the wings to do so would help. So, worst case scenario is that Felton is marginal to bad and we don't care if he walks OR he is exceptionally good and is priced out of our affordability anyway.

In the meantime. Felton finally has to prove that he's worth the money he is asking. Last season was hardly a consensus on Felton's worth. I've been a Felton homer since year one, making plenty of excuses for him. However, barring significant injuries, everything is in place for him to be successful: a few quality shooters, a big who can finish inside, a quality coach, and a quality system. Every position will have to be accounted for by the opposing defense, meaning D's can't slack off on certain guys like in season's past. Basically, it's time for Felton to show that he can run a team and has a solid skill set.

I would love for Felton to show that he's the best two-way floor general for the job and prove all of the doubters wrong, yet still allowing us to pay him at the end of the season. However, if that doesn't work out, I say we take the monetary savings and let the DJ era begin without a multi-year commitment averaging $7M that we have to sell short because teams know we don't need him.