Blazers streaming games online

[Scottley Crue]

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/62096/20091013/blazers_will_stream_games_online/


Just saw this on RealGM. If Michael is looking at this, could this be done with the Bobcats so those that don't have access to the games can see them? Just a thought, but it could be a good way to get out there until other carriers decide to pick up the 'Cats.

[ammofan]

http://www.realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/62096/20091013/blazers_will_stream_games_online/


Just saw this on RealGM. If Michael is looking at this, could this be done with the Bobcats so those that don't have access to the games can see them? Just a thought, but it could be a good way to get out there until other carriers decide to pick up the 'Cats.

same thing I was thinking. It doesn't effect me because I live in Charlotte but I am all for getting as many people to watch our games as possible!

[Scottley Crue]

same thing I was thinking. It doesn't effect me because I live in Charlotte but I am all for getting as many people to watch our games as possible!
Yeah, the TV situation doesn't affect me either, but the more that can watch the games, the better.

[millst2]

yeah but i think due to the contract signed with time warner and foxsports they dont allow any other forms of distribution of the games. So streaming would go against their agreement. No difference than letting people pay for league pass broadband, but I talked to them and the only games I could watch was when the Bobcats are on the road.

I have bitched at my cable provider but all they say is there is not enough demand to justify paying fox the hefty fee they want. And of course if other carriers do not carry the games then they have no chance of building demand for the games cause nobody knows who the hell they are except us straggler diehards.

[docend24]

I just hope I won't get "bla bla ... not for your geographical region... bla" quote for being outside of US. Otherwise it would be awesome.

[CatNation]

I'd jizz my pants if this happened. Couldn't they just stream the TWC broadcast and commercials? What the fuck is wrong with cable companies in NC, it's like they don't want advertiser revenue. I fucking hate the TV situation.

So I live in NC and I will be able to see 82 more Blazers games than I will Bobcats. FUCKING MORONS.

edit: I just read this http://blog.oregonlive.com/blazers/2009/10/more_on_trail_blazers_online_s.html

it says they are only allowed to broadcast in their designated market. Wouldn't that include us in NC and SC that have been bent over by the channel providers?? WE COULD HAVE A WAY TO WATCH. someone e-mail this to Michael Thompson. Fill up his god damn inbox. I already sent 2 e-mails to info@bobcats.com

[dnbman]

I'd jizz my pants if this happened. Couldn't they just stream the TWC broadcast and commercials? What the fuck is wrong with cable companies in NC, it's like they don't want advertiser revenue. I fucking hate the TV situation.

So I live in NC and I will be able to see 82 more Blazers games than I will Bobcats. FUCKING MORONS.

edit: I just read this http://blog.oregonlive.com/blazers/2009/10/more_on_trail_blazers_online_s.html

it says they are only allowed to broadcast in their designated market. Wouldn't that include us in NC and SC that have been bent over by the channel providers?? WE COULD HAVE A WAY TO WATCH. someone e-mail this to Michael Thompson. Fill up his god damn inbox. I already sent 2 e-mails to info@bobcats.com

I don't think (and I could be wrong) that the cable companies make any money off of ad revenues; I think the networks make all of that money. So, the cable companies are only interested in what will keep people paying for cable, which is obviously programming. Look at it from their perspective: if a given show will draw 10,000 viewers for the minimal cost of a fishing show but draw the same amount of viewers for a Bobcats game at a much higher cost, what does the cable provider do to make a profit?

I get it. I just hate that the providers wouldn't look at televising the games as an investment in future viewers.

[teej]

I just hope I won't get "bla bla ... not for your geographical region... bla" quote for being outside of US. Otherwise it would be awesome.

You would have to do league pass online, which you can do anyway can't you?

And there is no reason for the 'Cats not to do this, I have an email in to MT, and this would solve our issues.

[Walt Cronkite]

Oh, to be a blazer fan :(

[CatNation]

I sent a rant to every e-mail link related to the Bobcats I could find, including MT. Knowing the Bobcats, nothing will get done but whatever. New ownership couldn't come any faster. And cable providers suck. Not only do the Cats not come on, but we get ads for Atlanta Hawks games on SportSouth here in Boone. Of course we are blacked out from those as well :facepalm:

[davcbow]

would be nice to be able to watch a game online but I have found over the years these cable people are all about money and thats bottem line... this old saying applies.... money talks bullshit walks....:cool:

[SCBobcat]

If the Bobcats still have enough employees to spare a couple to work on a streaming project, then our prayers might be answered. This raises another point, though. Why can't Fox Sports provide a stream themselves? They own the rights. I'm sure someone could work out a model where we could even pay Fox Sports for the ability to watch games online here in the Carolinas. This way they take out the middle man (TW, Charter, Comcast, etc). I would pay for League Pass primarily to watch Cats games, so I would pay an equal amount to Fox Sports if they gave me the option.

[Shrimpy_Jackson]

Yeah fingers crossed on this because I've been fucking tired of not being able to watch the games for at least a couple of years now!

[CatNation]

Michael e-mailed me back. All I got was "The situation is Portland is different than ours" followed by a copy paste of all the TV crap they probably send everyone who complains, and a suggestion to e-mail the cable providers.

So all in all, it seems like the perfect solution but obviously its not gonna happen. :mad:

[GoBobs]

So if I get league pass online will I be able to see the games or only away games?

[Walt Cronkite]

In Knoxville you can probably see all of the games.

[Scottley Crue]

Michael e-mailed me back. All I got was "The situation is Portland is different than ours" followed by a copy paste of all the TV crap they probably send everyone who complains, and a suggestion to e-mail the cable providers.

So all in all, it seems like the perfect solution but obviously its not gonna happen. :mad:
Yeah, with Fox Sports owning the rights, I wasn't sure how it could work or if it could at all. But from that blurb on RealGM, it seemed to be a similar situaton. Of course, I could have read it wrong, though.

[CatNation]

Does League Pass broadband have a free trial period? Because their help page has just given me a great suggestion. I'd like to mess around with it before shelling out 100 bucks or whatever first though...

http://leaguepasssupport.nba.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=7801&task=knowledge&questionID=264

"We do not support the use of VPN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vpn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vpn)), internet accelerators (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_accelerator (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_accelerator)), or proxies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxy_server (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxy_server)). VPNs, internet accelerators or proxies make users look like they are in a different location than they actually are. Note that the google web accelerator (http://webaccelerator.google.com/ (http://webaccelerator.google.com/)) is an example of a service which will result in incorrect blackouts,"

[Ghost Kat]

I think I'm happy with this years TV listing......My games come on two channels I can get. One I can watch without the cable box in anther roomone I have to watch in the room with the cable box since it's in channel 145. they say they are showing 72 games, If I get to see 50 games this year I'll be happy.

[SCBobcat]

I think League Pass Broadband did a free preview last year, so you should be in luck. I am counting on that preview for the first 3 games while I am in Cali. It's crazy that I will be able to watch Bobcats games there but not here in Columbia.

[Walt Cronkite]

Does League Pass broadband have a free trial period? Because their help page has just given me a great suggestion. I'd like to mess around with it before shelling out 100 bucks or whatever first though...

http://leaguepasssupport.nba.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=7801&task=knowledge&questionID=264

"We do not support the use of VPN (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vpn (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vpn)), internet accelerators (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_accelerator (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Web_accelerator)), or proxies (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxy_server (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxy_server)). VPNs, internet accelerators or proxies make users look like they are in a different location than they actually are. Note that the google web accelerator (http://webaccelerator.google.com/ (http://webaccelerator.google.com/)) is an example of a service which will result in incorrect blackouts,"

First week or two was free last year. Just have to have an nba.com account.

[CatNation]

I guess I'll give it a shot then. I don't know a whole lot about that kinda stuff but hopefully enough to get that to work...

[MrMelot]

I think I'm happy with this years TV listing......My games come on two channels I can get. One I can watch without the cable box in anther roomone I have to watch in the room with the cable box since it's in channel 145. they say they are showing 72 games, If I get to see 50 games this year I'll be happy.


Do you know for a fact that they're going to air the SportSouth games on the special events channel again? I'm right down the road from you in Pinehurst so I'm in the same situation.

[teej]

Michael e-mailed me back. All I got was "The situation is Portland is different than ours" followed by a copy paste of all the TV crap they probably send everyone who complains, and a suggestion to e-mail the cable providers.

So all in all, it seems like the perfect solution but obviously its not gonna happen. :mad:
I think I got a different email from you :o

According to MT, The Blazers tv people aren't concerned with getting individual cable and satellite providers in that area to show the games like FSCR is. But, he also said that FSCR and the 'Cats are watching very closey to see how this goes, and if it works well, it could open the door for us to have it.

[spectre]

I think I got a different email from you :o

According to MT, The Blazers tv people aren't concerned with getting individual cable and satellite providers in that area to show the games like FSCR is. But, he also said that FSCR and the 'Cats are watching very closey to see how this goes, and if it works well, it could open the door for us to have it.

Good.

Fox isn't getting a dime from me now, but if they offered all the games streamed for a fee they'd get it from me religiously.

They bitch that it's the cable providers...well here's a chance to put up or shut up.

[teej]

A good way for them to do it is if you live in an area of NC/SC/TN/GA (any I missed? VA maybe?) that is Bobcats territory and you are unable to watch the games on any local provider, then you can buy a pass to watch the games. But if you live in an area where there is one or more providers who show the games, then you can't get access. Not totally fair, but the best I can think of.

[spectre]

http://www.dwightjaynes.com/no-comcast-you-may-be-able-to-see-trail-blazer-games-this-season-after-all



I have learned today from two sources that telecasts of Portland Trail Blazer games may finally be accessible to a much wider audience this season, even though there’s no word of any sort of immediate resolution in the battle between Comcast and the satellite TV companies.
During the offseason, the NBA apparently decided that teams could make live telecasts of their games available on their web sites, but left it up to individual teams to decide whether to do it. And what I’ve heard is that the Trail Blazers have already decided to stream all their games live this season on their web site.
I’m not sure how that impacts the relationship between Comcast Sportsnet and the Trail Blazers, but it’s well known that the Trail Blazers have been frustrated that their games have not been available to a wider audience than just those with cable TV connections. Comcast has been negotiating with Directv and Dish Network for more than two years, trying to reach an agreement that would allow Comcast Sportsnet Northwest to be available via satellite. But no deal has been made and such a deal does not seem imminent.
There were several web sites last season that pirated the signal of Trail Blazer telecasts and aired them on the Internet. The NBA has attempted to halt that piracy with varying degrees of success.
Major League Baseball has opened up a solid revenue stream by making its games available for a price on the Internet. All MLB games throughout the season and in the postseason are available — for a price – on the web.
No word yet on what the NBA or the Blazers will set as the cost of watching the games, whether they’d be available on a per-game basis or only on a season basis.
The Trail Blazers Tuesday refused comment on this story.


With all due respect to Michael Thompson this sounds EXACTLY like our situation.

Since the NBA has determined that the teams can stream the games with apparent disregard to the group that owns the TV rights I'd like an explanation for why they're not they're not considering this strongly as well.

That is if they give a rat's ass.

[spectre]

Something else...IMO this puts the Bobcat's "answer" of us fans calling the subscribers in an attempt to get the games aired into fantasy land. If one of the most up and coming, exciting teams can't get their games aired because of the disputes between the sports networks and the providers there is NO WAY IN HELL we can.

Unless the Bobcats do something like what the Blazers are then we are pretty much screwed. There is no "they'll start showing the games when we're winning"...the Blazers ARE winning.

Bobcats need to step up. This is a new revenue stream that has been BLESSED by the NBA where they can provide their product to fans who have no alternative.

[teej]

Spectre, the difference is the Blazers are on just about if not every cable network, their issue is with the satellite providers. The 'Cats are already on the satellite providers, and some cable providers. Its just the rest of the cable people we're waiting on...

[spectre]

Spectre, the difference is the Blazers are on just about if not every cable network, their issue is with the satellite providers. The 'Cats are already on the satellite providers, and some cable providers. Its just the rest of the cable people we're waiting on...

They are on the satellite providers within a 75 mile radius. Outside of that radius is an "issue" for me as well as a lot of others and it should be for the Bobcats.

Are you trying to say that the Blazers are just trying to include a small group that's been left out? Why is that any different than our situation...except that ours aren't "small"?

Why isn't this the perfect solution, especially since the NBA has put their blessing on it?

I kind of like this idea:

Bills fans rent billboard to advertise discontent (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-bills-fanbillboard&prov=ap&type=lgns)

Think maybe the nearest billboard to the cable box would be a good idea? 1400 bucks...those who are pissed off about this could probably raise that much.

[teej]

Look, spectre, I love the idea. But MT is right in saying the situations are a little different. And if this works for Portland (and I see no reason why it wouldn't) then it should be in Charlotte very soon.

[spectre]

Look, spectre, I love the idea. But MT is right in saying the situations are a little different. And if this works for Portland (and I see no reason why it wouldn't) then it should be in Charlotte very soon.

Then explain it to me.

We both have fans who can't get access due to the entity controlling TV rights and DISH & DirectTV not being able to get a deal done.

The Blazers are looking for an alternative and the NBA has given them one.

What's the difference? That FSN has another deal with the sat providers to give access to those within the 75 mile radius and the Blazers don't?

If it's as you said (that Blazers' fans have way more access than we do)...aren't the Blazers looking for a way to provide the games to a SMALLER group not getting the games than we're talking about here for the Bobcats?

Seems to me the Bobcats should be MORE inclined to do this than Portland.

The one thing I do see as different is that the Blazers aren't telling the fans that they can't do anything and the fans' only choice is to call up the satellites and bitch.

[teej]

Then explain it to me.

Comcast NW couldn't really care less who buys their coverage, they have a situation where they sell it for a fixed price and who buys it, buys it. Ours is one where the local providers won't take it, even at a discounted price from the initial offering. The 75 mile radius isn't something either party has control over from what I've read, but I may be wrong. I think that's something the league office did. When you put the games up on the internet, then the value of having them on a local provider is gone. Thus, if the Bobcats put it up there, then they're saying they've given up and the providers will pretty much never (in the close future) pay the fee to broadcast the games. That means only those who pay can watch the games and no fanbase is allowed to grow from the tv market. Does that make sense? I'm kind of sick so it might not.

[spectre]

Hope you feel better Teej.

I understand that reasoning, but I don't think it's realistic. I keep coming back to if the Blazers' affiliate can't get deals done then there's no way in hell FSN ever will.

Streaming them online will take the "power" from FSN somewhat, but I don't think they have any power anyway. Thing for me is the NBA has now given their blessing to the teams to get around them...so if the Bobcats really do care about giving access to the vast group that has no alternative then here's their chance.

[teej]

Hope you feel better Teej.

I understand that reasoning, but I don't think it's realistic. I keep coming back to if the Blazers' affiliate can't get deals done then there's no way in hell FSN ever will.

Streaming them online will take the "power" from FSN somewhat, but I don't think they have any power anyway. Thing for me is the NBA has now given their blessing to the teams to get around them...so if the Bobcats really do care about giving access to the vast group that has no alternative then here's their chance.

Yes, but the Blazers can't get a deal done with Dish/DirecTv. The satellite providers are much harder to get a deal done with then cable, and we have Dish and DirecTv. From my mark, the only major, major one the 'Cats are missing is Charter. A lot of smaller ones that make up major areas, but Charter has a broad reach in NC/SC and if they got a deal done would fix a lot of issues.

My point is if the 'Cats put a stream up we lose longterm fan support and exposure. And FSN does have at least some power. The 'Cats care, trust me, without people knowing the team, who wants to buy tickets, jerseys, etc.?

[spectre]

Yes, but the Blazers can't get a deal done with Dish/DirecTv. The satellite providers are much harder to get a deal done with then cable, and we have Dish and DirecTv. From my mark, the only major, major one the 'Cats are missing is Charter. A lot of smaller ones that make up major areas, but Charter has a broad reach in NC/SC and if they got a deal done would fix a lot of issues.

My point is if the 'Cats put a stream up we lose longterm fan support and exposure. And FSN does have at least some power. The 'Cats care, trust me, without people knowing the team, who wants to buy tickets, jerseys, etc.?

How so? If people outside of the 75 mile radius can't ever see the team unless they're in a metropolitan area with TWC I don't get how they'll lose support when they actually give those people an option.

Right now no one is getting my money.

BTW...I consider those outside of that radius a major subset. As rural as NC/SC are we're probably talking about a BUNCH of households as the sats are their only option.

Maybe with that internet option FSN will actually be motivated to work a deal out with the sats and other cable companies too?

If the 'Cats cared that much they'd stop pushing the onus onto us when we have NO power and get in the front of things like the Blazers are doing. It's a weak argument from their standpoint and almost insinuates that we're ignorant to think that we'd believe that.

[teej]

How so? If people outside of the 75 mile radius can't ever see the team unless they're in a metropolitan area with TWC I don't get how they'll lose support when they actually give those people an option.

Right now no one is getting my money.

BTW...I consider those outside of that radius a major subset. As rural as NC/SC are we're probably talking about a BUNCH of households as the sats are their only option.

Maybe with that internet option FSN will actually be motivated to work a deal out with the sats and other cable companies too?

If the 'Cats cared that much they'd stop pushing the onus onto us when we have NO power and get in the front of things like the Blazers are doing. It's a weak argument from their standpoint and almost insinuates that we're ignorant to think that we'd believe that.

OK. Here's what I'm trying to explain. I'm still a little sick, and I'm probably doing a bad job of explaining it. There's a reason I haven't written a blog about this piss-poor officiating :rolleyes:. But it makes sense to me. Here goes.

A) The 75 mile radius is not made by the Bobcats or the satellite providers, but is an NBA regulation or legal regulation, and I think it applies to all teams. Which means unless you are within 75 miles of an NBA arena and have dish/directv, the only way to watch a game is on LeaguePass. I have no confirmation on this, but that's what I've read and would make sense from some of the other stuff with LeaguePass and blackouts and such.

B) Because the 'Cats (until this new thing was passed) had no way of getting into negotiations and had passed all rights to FSCR/FSN, the onus is/was on us. Now there is SOMEthing they can do, but it's not a great solution yet.

C) If the 'Cats activate a stream online, while you're right in saying it increases pressure on FSN, it also gives them even less bargaining power, because its much less exclusive at that point. FS is working to get as many providers to carry the games as possible, its the tv people who are the issue. The problem is there aren't enough of us complaining. But complaining added 6 carriers during last season, and with the team playing better, there will likely be more this year.

D) Here's how the fan support comes in. If you stop working to get major providers like Charter and Comporium (that's the only other one I've heard complaints about), then a major portion of NC/SC is left off like you said, but for a different reason. Then, for them, the only way to watch the Bobcats is to pay a fee to watch online, and for 99%, that won't be worth the hassle. But if you don't put the stream up, once the team starts winning the providers will be forced to carry the games and that 99% will at somepoint find their way into a Bobcats game on FSCR, thus adding to the fanbase. Back when Ted Turner created TBS, his main programming was Braves Baseball, and they were nationally broadcast for 37 years I think. That's why you have Braves fans in Arizona and South Dakota who have never been inside a Major League stadium. While this isn't nearly that broad, it's the same concept.

Does that make sense? I hope it does...

[spectre]

First off, I congratulate you for trying to explain this. You've done an exemplary job.

If only I didn't agree with it... :p


The 75 mile radius is not made by the Bobcats or the satellite providers, but is an NBA regulation or legal regulation, and I think it applies to all teams. Which means unless you are within 75 miles of an NBA arena and have dish/directv, the only way to watch a game is on LeaguePass. I have no confirmation on this, but that's what I've read and would make sense from some of the other stuff with LeaguePass and blackouts and such.That's not correct. Regardless of who dictated the 75 mile limit...the only difference between "inside" and "outside" is the rate FSN is charging. FSN is also blocking League Pass state wide...so it's obvious the "intent" is for us to see the games thru FSN exclusively.

That rate is why DISH & DirectTV is showing it within the 75 mile radius and not showing it outside. They say it's too high and won't pay it.

Why should it be more outside of that 75 mile radius? Who decided that? Does it actually cost more (and why would it?) and thus warrant a higher rate?

I've looked all around and I can find no mandate from either the feds or the state in regards to that.


B) Because the 'Cats (until this new thing was passed) had no way of getting into negotiations and had passed all rights to FSCR/FSN, the onus is/was on us. Now there is SOMEthing they can do, but it's not a great solution yet.Yet it is a fantasy. As I mentioned earlier...if Portland's rights holder can't get DISH & DirectTV on board then we don't have a hope in hell. As popular as that team is you would think the demand would be very high...certainly moreso than we'd be able to ever generate.

Legally the Bobcats probably didn't have any options. However...they could at least be trying to get something done as an interested 3rd party. One suggestion they could make is that the sats put the games on as "pay per view"; it doesn't cost the sats anything if people don't buy it and both get paid when people do.

A motivated group would do everything in their power to get a deal done. To date all we've heard is "the Bobcats can do nothing...it's all on the fans".


C) If the 'Cats activate a stream online, while you're right in saying it increases pressure on FSN, it also gives them even less bargaining power, because its much less exclusive at that point. FS is working to get as many providers to carry the games as possible, its the tv people who are the issue. The problem is there aren't enough of us complaining. But complaining added 6 carriers during last season, and with the team playing better, there will likely be more this year.Were the new carriers at the cheaper rate or the higher one? Has FSN gotten any group within that higher rate other than TWC?

How do we know that the issue isn't FSN asking for too much from the tv people? That's what the sat people are saying at any rate.

To the last part I'll re-point out the Blazers' situation. Winning hasn't gotten them on TV.


D) Here's how the fan support comes in. If you stop working to get major providers like Charter and Comporium (that's the only other one I've heard complaints about), then a major portion of NC/SC is left off like you said, but for a different reason. Then, for them, the only way to watch the Bobcats is to pay a fee to watch online, and for 99%, that won't be worth the hassle. But if you don't put the stream up, once the team starts winning the providers will be forced to carry the games and that 99% will at somepoint find their way into a Bobcats game on FSCR, thus adding to the fanbase.Again...Portland.

But simple enough...restrict the streams as soon as a viable option is offered to those in need.

[SCBobcat]

Just to clear up some points:
(1) Major carriers in major metropolitan areas are still not carrying the games. Like TWC in Columbia.
(2) That is because the NBA charges a much higher rate to carry their product outside of the 75 mile radius.
(3) Because the content is technically "available" to local carriers (like TWC-Columbia) even if for an exhorbitant fee, League Pass is blacked out and there is no alternative.
The league has set their price for outer market carriers at such a level relative to inner market areas that it is cost prohibitive for the outer market local carriers to carry the games.
The lawyer in me wants to sue the NBA for some kind of geographical discrimination. The NBA now decides to allow streaming, which tells me someone has actually threatened them and they are giving in. Let's join the party and stream some games.

[TheBeagle]

Great thread, folks. As a feller who lives just south of Winston-Salem and has never had trouble viewing the Cats (yep, including those horrid C-SET days when they'd show the Emeka Okafor story before and after every game....and then after that, every other hour :rolleyes:), this has been the biggest issue that's bothered me as a Cats fan. It actually wasn't until I joined up here at BCP that I discovered so many Carolinas Cats fans were having such trouble viewing games and it blew my mind. I mean, here I am, a good 60-65 miles north of Charlotte never having trouble seeing games, and there's diehards in the Upstate, just a handful of miles from Charlotte that have never seen a televised game outside of our what, two nationally televised games?

To be both blunt and honest, Bob fucked it up, and while things are better than they were since the FSS deal, it's still, obviously, a fiasco. I really think if the entity Bobcats Sports Entertainment is as committed to the fan as they often say they are (and I know MT is, others I'm not too sure), they indeed need to do whatever it takes and follow Portland's lead here and stream games. Like spectre intimated, this isn't the final solution to the problem, just a stop-gap until a better, permanent solution is found; let all the powers that be that decide these things amongst the league, FSN, and cable providers play their tired chess match that seems to be headed to a stalemate, and just let us Cats fans watch our Cats for crying out loud!

It really is absurd, and it looks like the Cats finally have an alternative to sidestep the cable-politico bickering and give THEIR product to THEIR fans and come out smelling like roses.

[teej]

That's not correct. Regardless of who dictated the 75 mile limit...the only difference between "inside" and "outside" is the rate FSN is charging. FSN is also blocking League Pass state wide...so it's obvious the "intent" is for us to see the games thru FSN exclusively.

That rate is why DISH & DirectTV is showing it within the 75 mile radius and not showing it outside. They say it's too high and won't pay it.

Why should it be more outside of that 75 mile radius? Who decided that? Does it actually cost more (and why would it?) and thus warrant a higher rate?

I've looked all around and I can find no mandate from either the feds or the state in regards to that.

I think SCBobcat cleared that up. I'd love to know where he found that.


Yet it is a fantasy. As I mentioned earlier...if Portland's rights holder can't get DISH & DirectTV on board then we don't have a hope in hell. As popular as that team is you would think the demand would be very high...certainly moreso than we'd be able to ever generate.

Legally the Bobcats probably didn't have any options. However...they could at least be trying to get something done as an interested 3rd party. One suggestion they could make is that the sats put the games on as "pay per view"; it doesn't cost the sats anything if people don't buy it and both get paid when people do.

A motivated group would do everything in their power to get a deal done. To date all we've heard is "the Bobcats can do nothing...it's all on the fans".

From what i can tell from MT, the 'Cats are doing what they can as a third party, but since they signed the rights away, they can't get into the financials, which is the crux of the issue. And spectre, if you ask anyone who's ever worked with tv people (in thew offices), they're complete and total fucktards. For the most part. And judging by this mess, we got the lot of them. So any ppv or other stuff which makes sense would be out the window...


Were the new carriers at the cheaper rate or the higher one? Has FSN gotten any group within that higher rate other than TWC?

How do we know that the issue isn't FSN asking for too much from the tv people? That's what the sat people are saying at any rate.

To the last part I'll re-point out the Blazers' situation. Winning hasn't gotten them on TV.

FSN is likely charging their standard rate (they have tons of NBA, MLB, and college rights) and they haven't had this kind of issues anywhere else I'm aware of. I see no reason for them to charge more for an expansion franchise than, say, their Hawks or Grizzlies coverage, and that's all picked up in local markets as far as I'm aware. So I don't see why it's them. And I have no clue on rates or who is charged what.


Again...Portland.

But simple enough...restrict the streams as soon as a viable option is offered to those in need.

I suggested that to MT.

Let me leave you with this, though, since you seem to have little hope. Portland just finished off the JailBlazers era. That caused a huge issue in fan support, ticket sales, etc. They also have, from what I can tell, multiple tv stations they use and haven't been with Comcast that long. In our case, the fans are just now taking a liking to the team, the area is hoops crazy, and we have a set network that is nationally respected. I think Charlotte is a much better place for basketball than Portland, and we haven't messed it up too much yet.

[spectre]

Thanks Teej...that's what I need (hope). This Blazers' article really got me discouraged about ever seeing the Bobcats on TV.

I'd not be so down on the Cats on this issue if MT would at least say that they're trying to do SOMETHING. I know there's contracts, but their corporate line about this is just such BS that all it does is piss me off.

How do you complain when 1) you have no other option for service and 2) FSN & the Sats have it set up where you can never talk to anyone who has a clue? Hell, I'm lucky to get someone at DISH who can speak freaking English!

In America you can get anything if you just have the money...except the Bobcats on TV.

[teej]

In America you can get anything if you just have the money...except the Bobcats on TV.

Well, without sounding like a smartass, because I'm in the same situation, if you really had the money you could move somewhere where they had them on tv...or get season tickets. :p

But yeah, I know exactly what you mean. It's frustrating as hell, but eventually it'll get fixed.

[Dcarnys]

In America you can get anything if you just have the money...except the Bobcats on TV.
Will someone tell Bob Johnson that? (And to fix the TV thing too)

[spectre]

On taking FSN power away by streaming the games.

I don't think it will at all, because it'll be MUCH cheaper for the consumer to see the game thru FSN as that add-on is only like 5-6 bucks per month and I'd assume they'd want at least a buck or two per game online.

Also...I don't know about anyone else but I'd definitely rather see the game on the big screen vs. my computer monitor.

[SCBobcat]

I think SCBobcat cleared that up. I'd love to know where he found that..

Teej, I highly recommend reading an article by Professor John A. Fortunato, Ph.D. entitled "The NBA Strategy of Broadcast Television Exposure: A Legal Application.". This article was published in the Fordham Intellectual Property, Media and Entertainment Law Journal, Vol. 12:133.

The short rundown is that the NBA sucessfully lobbied for an exclusion from U.S. Antitrust laws, which allows them to opperate like a cartel when negotiating broadcasting rights. The NBA controls their broadcasts in order to achieve the highest possible ratings while not oversaturating the market.

The NBA set up the 75 mile radius as an arbitrary way to define the local market. Going further, the NBA Board of Governors adopted a resolution that all TV contracts entered into by individual teams would be "subject to the Constitution, Bylaws and all other rules and regulations" of the league.
Think of it like the T-shirt market. To make a T-shirt you need a commodity like cotton, you need manufacturing, and you need a store to sell it to the public. In the NBA, basketball is the cotton, the individual teams are the manufacturers and Fox is the store that brings the product to consumers. The only difference is that the NBA negotiated with congress to be allowed to charge whatever they want for their product. And the NBA decided, in order to not oversaturate the market that they will sell T-shirts for exhorbitant prices if you don't live within 75 miles of the manufacturer. (Keep in mind that due to the Board of Governors resolution, the NBA controls the manufacturers and thus, they can mandate the suggested manufacturer's price at which they sell the shirts to the stores.

Just to check this out, look up that recent jersey contest the Bobcats had at the end of last year. By league rule, only people within the 75 mile radius were eligible to win. The 75 mile thing is the NBA's way of not oversaturating the whole country with Lakers and Celtics games. Because if they did, the ratings on the national broadcasts wouldn't be as high as they otherwise would be. This is where the NBA makes the bulk of their profit margin.

[Dcarnys]

Also...I don't know about anyone else but I'd definitely rather see the game on the big screen vs. my computer monitor.

I don't know about anyone else but id like to see the games period. (Not to sound annoying but)

[SCBobcat]

Here is a more recent example of what I was talking about 2 posts ago when I said the 75-mile radius is an NBA thing (and mentioned the jersey giveaway sweepstakes from last year. Looking on the bobcats page right now there is a sweepstakes to win free club level seats to the first game. Looking at the contest rules you find:
"CHARLOTTE BOBCATS “WIN TICKETS TO OPENING NIGHT” SWEEPSTAKES

OFFICIAL RULES
No Purchase Necessary.
A Purchase Will Not Increase Your Chances Of Winning.

1. ELIGIBILITY: Sweepstakes is open to residents of the States of North Carolina or South Carolina who: (i) are 18 years or older as of October 19, 2009; and (ii) who reside within a 75 mile radius of the facility currently known as the Time Warner Cable Arena located in Charlotte, North Carolina."

Not only has the NBA decided that we are psuedo fans if we live in the Carolinas but more than 75 miles away from the arena, they have decided to charge the local providers more just to let us see the games, and on top of that they deem us ineligible to enter a contest. Nevermind that if you go ahead and enter anyways, they will still use your information and send you promotional materials. They get and get and get and they give us NOTHING.

[spectre]

Live Sixers games on the Internet? Perhaps (http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/20091015_Live_Sixers_games_on_the_Internet__Perhap s.html)

Slightly different than our (and the Blazers) situation; their carrier Comcast is looking at showing their EXISTING customers streams on the internet (regional...I've come to hate that word).

A few interesting things though:


Sixers fans in the Philadelphia area could watch live games on the Internet this basketball season for the first time, as long as they pay an extra fee that runs about $20 a month.

Comcast SportsNet Philadelphia, which carries 76ers regular-season games on cable TV, might announce the details of the new service by the start of the season Oct. 28. Some negotiations were still taking place, sources said.
So they're going to charge their existing customers 20 bucks a month for the stream even tho they're already getting the channel.

Here's a thought...why not try and sell it to those that have NO access! Think maybe they might be slightly more motivated to pay the 20$ than those already getting the games?



The economics of sports is different than general entertainment, experts say, and most likely led to the extra-fee policy. The National Basketball Association charges Comcast, or any operator, $3,000 per game to stream local games. There are 82 regular-season NBA games.
In a separate and controversial business model, ESPN has been charging broadband providers a per-subscriber fee of 10 cents to 25 cents for ESPN360.com, an online sports site with 3,000 live games. ESPN is a division of entertainment giant Walt Disney Co.

Small cable operators and rural pay-TV companies criticize the per-subscriber fee for ESPN360.com, which they have to pay. They say entertainment companies would like to bundle entertainment networks into broadband bills as they bundle the cable TV channels into cable TV bills. They fear that if ESPN is successful, other entertainment conglomerates could ask Internet providers for per-subscriber fees for Web sites, leading to higher broadband bills and a backlash against broadband providers.

"If ESPN360 is a great product, then have people go out and buy it. Don't make us buy it for them," said Matthew Polka, president and chief executive officer of the American Cable Association in Pittsburgh, a trade industry group of smaller cable companies. Polka's association has submitted comments stating its concerns with ESPN360 to the Federal Communications Commission.

ESPN did not respond to phone calls for response.

[Ampsportsduo]

I haven't read the entire thread and I apologize if this has been addressed, but I wanted to shed some light on this situation.

The Trail Blazers are having difficulty with their network (comcast, I believe?). Comcast is playing hard ball and wanting to charge more to the individual providers, so the games are being seen in a relatively small area.

The Bobcats situation is different in that the individual providers are choosing not to air the games. They are trying hard to get the product out there, but several markets are not biting.

The situation may appear the same to the fans, but from the team perspective they are very different. The Cats are doing everything they can to get their product out there, while the Blazers product is being held hostage by Comcast.

[spectre]

^ Because the NBA is charging them more to broadcast outside of the 75 mile radius.

Are you saying that Comcast is trying to charge the providers even more than the extra the NBA wants?

Either way, in both situations the one who holds the rights is wanting more to show the games than the providers want to pay. There might be different small points, but unless Compast is asking for even more on top of that I think they are very similar.

And I would LOVE to know what the Bobcats are doing to get their product out there besides telling us we have to take care of it.

[SCBobcat]

I am 100% with you Spectre. I think the NBA has kept confidential their charges for showing games outside of the 75-mile radius (and their charges for inner radius customers). My understanding is that the NBA sells their product to FOX who makes it available in every market in the Carolinas, with the caveat that those markets outside of the radius pay a higher price than those inside the radius. It makes sense that FOX then does their own markup on that price when they sell the programming to the local carriers. The local carriers then have 2 things to look at. (1) do they want to pay for the channel itself and (2) do they want to pay for the Bobcats programming. They pay for the channel to lure subscribers (with their amazing channel lineup) and they pay for the programming to lure adertising dollars. They have to have enough subscribers that the adertisers want to pay for the commercial time. In addition, the programming has to be popular enough to demand and fill advertising time worth enough to pay for the programming fee from FOX plus some profit margin. Keep in mind that programminf fee from FOX is mostly mandated by the NBA. When we complain to Time Warner or Comcast or Charter, we are not speaking to the people that need to hear our voices. The people who truly make the decision are the advertisers. If the ad companies see a large and energized market, they will convince the local carriers to pay for the programming that eventually brings the ad companies into our living rooms.

[Ampsportsduo]

This link may provide some more details.

http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregonian/john_canzano/index.ssf/2009/10/canzano_trail_blazers_start_an.html

It's not the same situation at all.

[spectre]

This link may provide some more details.

http://www.oregonlive.com/sports/oregonian/john_canzano/index.ssf/2009/10/canzano_trail_blazers_start_an.html

It's not the same situation at all.

So Comcast is trying to force the providers to include it in all the packages that they offer?

Other than that though, you could substitute "Blazers" for "Bobcats" and it'd still be true. All but the part about them actively trying to do something about the situation.

[Ampsportsduo]

So Comcast is trying to force the providers to include it in all the packages that they offer?

Other than that though, you could substitute "Blazers" for "Bobcats" and it'd still be true. All but the part about them actively trying to do something about the situation.

"The network is asking for unreasonable rates"

Never once has this been said about the Cats, it's individual providers choosing not to pick up the product because they don't believe the Cats fan base is a big enough draw. Blazers fans are notoriously rabid and cable providers still won't pick it up.

The Bocats are also on the DirecTV Game Pass, where Comcast is blocking the games.

"But in the end, their tactics amount to exploitation."

Again, not the same.

It may be the same from the vantage of an individual fan, but the situations are drastically different.

Streaming the games is a last result because generally the best the team can hope to do is break even and that's if they have a large fan base.

[Muttley]

Yesterday, I looked ahead in the guide on my AT&T U-Verse to record the Celtics game and the Knicks game. Neither was listed, though other teams' games were listed on their fox sports stations (those will likely blacked out).

This is concerning. Michael Thompson's interview-blog said that they would be carrying it, so I'm hoping it's just an error in the guide and it will be corrected. They did carry the preseason games that were aired. I know that there are lots of other people who aren't getting any of the games, but I just hate getting jerked around by these cable providers (or whoever is responsible for this mess).

I have yet to call AT&T about it.

[spectre]

EVERY provider is saying that about the Bobcats outside of that 75 mile radius! That's why DTV & DISH won't pick them up.

Now that is obviously a result of the NBA mandating an extra charge, but we don't know that FSN isn't also adding a premium to that number as well.

The only thing different is that FSN has been able to pick up most if not all within that radius. Outside of that seems pretty much the same.

They both are also blocking out NBA League Pass...effectively assuring those outside that radius no option to see the team. I know they consider that their "leverage"...but until someone gives that basically means all of us are SOL.

Of course all of NC/SC could rise up and demand to their providers that they show us the Bobcats even tho a lot of us have no alternative for TV and even tho lots don't even know the 'Cats exist...because they aren't on TV!

It's screwed up.

[teej]

The only thing different is that FSN has been able to pick up most if not all within that radius. Outside of that seems pretty much the same.

They both are also blocking out NBA League Pass...effectively assuring those outside that radius no option to see the team. I know they consider that their "leverage"...but until someone gives that basically means all of us are SOL.

1) I'd say maybe half of those inside the radius get it, if that. It's only a handful of providers that show it, and Charter has a major reach arround here and in SC and they refuse to show it, as well as Comporium in SC and one other I'm missing.

2) Doesn't the NBA block the regional team on League Pass? Just like MLB blocks the Braves on Extra Innings and NFL blocks the Panthers on Sunday Ticket?

[spectre]

2) Doesn't the NBA block the regional team on League Pass? Just like MLB blocks the Braves on Extra Innings and NFL blocks the Panthers on Sunday Ticket?

No. I got the Bobcats on LP every year until FSN took it over.

That one is all on Fox Sports.

[teej]

No. I got the Bobcats on LP every year until FSN took it over.

That one is all on Fox Sports.

Hmm.

What about the online? I couldn't get any reg. League Pass info, but here's some online stuff.



What determines a broadband blackout?

A broadband blackout is determined by the zip code location associated with your Internet Service Providers (ISP) account. Our system uses this information to confirm your location and to restrict access to regionally televised and national televised games.
For example: If a customer lives in California and purchased his subscription there; then traveled to Michigan, he would be blacked out in Michigan.

[spectre]

I didn't try to get the online LP until last year (because that's when LP on TV became blocked)...but don't you think they're just mimicking the TV situation?

Regardless, I know for a fact that the NBA is not the ones blocking LP on TV unless they coincidentally starting doing it last season.

[teej]

I didn't try to get the online LP until last year (because that's when LP on TV became blocked)...but don't you think they're just mimicking the TV situation?

Regardless, I know for a fact that the NBA is not the ones blocking LP on TV unless they coincidentally starting doing it last season.

Well, that quote I gave you came from a page that was created on 10/29/08...

Anything's possible. But I doubt it.

[spectre]

It's not the NBA. Right after I found out LP was blocked I started complaining, and someone...either MT or another 'Cats person...told me that was done to protect FSN's market share. If we have an "out" thru LP then the providers wouldn't have any incentive (that would be us complaining) to buy it from them.

Thus creating the great circle jerk.

[SCBobcat]

LP is block in all NBA markets where the programming is "available" to your local carrier. When FSN bought the rights to Bobcats games they made it "available" in all NC and SC markets. Available means that the local carriers have the option to buy the content (regardless of the price). Either way, because of the price to the local carriers, we are screwed until the Bobs become uberpopular (which we know won't happen without exposure).

[teej]

LP is block in all NBA markets where the programming is "available" to your local carrier. When FSN bought the rights to Bobcats games they made it "available" in all NC and SC markets. Available means that the local carriers have the option to buy the content (regardless of the price). Either way, because of the price to the local carriers, we are screwed until the Bobs become uberpopular (which we know won't happen without exposure).

So because it was only available via TWC LP was able to show the 'Cats games where TWC wasn't?? That doesn't really make sense because Spectre lives where TWC is available...

And does that mean LP is blocked for the Knicks in all of NY, the Celtics in most of New England, and the T-Wolves in most of the North MidWest?

[spectre]

Nah, I'm in the woods. TWC doesn't make it to where I live...SC is right on that one.

Believe you me, if TWC was available I'd be hooked up so fast it wouldn't be funny. First group that makes the games available to me is the one I'd be with. Sadly right now the only ones in competition for that are the two sat companies and they aren't interested.

If I could talk my wife into watching Charlotte's local channels I'd be "moving" to the Queen City and watching them on DISH next week.

Least that's what I'd be telling them anyway.

[davcbow]

I may be moving back to Virginia so I know about living in the woods at 3100 ft elevation. Doubt I will see any games until I get high speed internet and league pass.....:cool: