View Full Version : Final Preseason Grades - read them and weap...
davcbow
10-25-2009, 08:44 AM
Final grades from all 8 games of the preseason...
Results taken directly from the box scores of every game and calculated using my own method...
Feel free to comment....:cool:
D. Augustin 17
D. Brown 14.71
R. Felton 14.25
G. Wallace 11.25
G. Henderson 11.25
A. Ajinca 9.83
T Chandler 8.5
N. Mohammed 8
S. Graham 8
F. Murray 6.66
V. Radmanovic 5.75
B. Diaw 3.5
D. Diop -0.38
R. Bell -0.5
Released
A. Anderson 3.33
D. Jefferson 1.66
__________________
Black
10-25-2009, 09:40 AM
hard to comment with out a grading scale and an explanation of your method
davcbow
10-25-2009, 05:44 PM
Its easy starts with the +/- (how the +/- works is example: if your team has a 5 point lead when a player comes in and they are tied when he goes out, he gets a -5 in that time period. If your team goes up by 8 in that time frame you get a +3, simple enough) you add rebounds, assists, steals, points, ect and subtract To's, and PF's for each game and divide by total of games each player has played in... :cool:
dnbman
10-25-2009, 05:59 PM
Its easy starts with the +/- (how the +/- works is example: if your team has a 5 point lead when a player comes in and they are tied when he goes out, he gets a -5 in that time period. If your team goes up by 8 in that time frame you get a +3, simple enough) you add rebounds, assists, steals, points, ect and subtract To's, and PF's for each game and divide by total of games each player has played in... :cool:
DJ was worse than Felton in almost category accept points, yet he has a higher rating, presumably because he played 4 more minutes per game. I wonder if playing time needs to be taken into account some how? What about missed shots?
davcbow
10-25-2009, 07:19 PM
Its just my grading scale on stats... example
Name ...........MIN........FG......3P.....FT........+/-......ORB... DRB...AST...PF.....ST....TO....BS.....BA.... PTS....TOT...AVE.....Games
D. Augustin...218:08....25/66..7/26...37/49...+13.......3......20.....31.....19.....11....1 9.....0.......2......94.....136....17........... 8
R. Felton......185:38....26/58..2/6.....19/22...-24.......4...... 41.....35.....16......9.....17.....1.......8...... 73.....114....14.25.......8
Sorry about the way it came out but I cant get it to format the way it should..
Start at the +/- and use addition to get the total divided bythe total games played and that gives you the average...
docend24
10-25-2009, 08:58 PM
Comment? I think it underlines very well how our drafts improved since Larry became part of the organization.
Davcbow, do you have a base score? I.E., PER has a base of 15...
Keetch
10-25-2009, 10:36 PM
Ya, DJ only shot 37.9% from the field for the preseason; so I can't be positive on that. Felton shot 44.8%. Felton had 35 Asts. and 17 TO's in 186 mins., DJ had 31 and 19 in 218. Still that's an improvement for DJ.
Dnbman!! by our fantasy system:
DJ .417 ppm
Felts .495 ppm
get this....Wallace .634; Ajinca .681! Hendo .537; UPS .545 Not bad!
Some other stats. of minor interest:
Stephen Graham shooting - 16 of 49 yuck.
Graham 16 TO's in 149 mins.
Radman 15 TO's in 136 mins.
Diaw 12 TO's in 101 mins.
Bell was horrible all around.
Small sampling....preseason!!!! Let's play for real now!
davcbow
10-25-2009, 11:14 PM
Davcbow, do you have a base score? I.E., PER has a base of 15...
Nope started at 0 with everyone at the beginning of game 1 and it was a running tally game to game.....
Comment? I think it underlines very well how our drafts improved since Larry became part of the organization.
Great comment.
etothet
10-26-2009, 11:01 AM
Nope started at 0 with everyone at the beginning of game 1 and it was a running tally game to game.....
If DJ is at top of your system, then there is a problem. He had some excellent games but also some horrible games. His shooting percentage including 2 point goals, 3 point goals, and free throws were not good at all. He was very inconsistent. His assist numbers went up some but I have no idea how he could be the leader in your point system. However I expect DJ to get better during the season.
davcbow
10-26-2009, 02:59 PM
If DJ is at top of your system, then there is a problem. He had some excellent games but also some horrible games. His shooting percentage including 2 point goals, 3 point goals, and free throws were not good at all. He was very inconsistent. His assist numbers went up some but I have no idea how he could be the leader in your point system. However I expect DJ to get better during the season.
It works off the +/- .... When DJ was in the game they scored 13 more points with him in the game. When Ray was in the game they scored 24 less points. The +/- works off combined offense and defense play throughout the entire 8 games. It dont apply to only offense and it dont apply to only defense but it does apply to both offense and defense. I take the +/- and add ORB, add DRB, add AST, subtract PF, add Steals, subtract Turn Overs, Add BS, Add BA, and add Points which gives the total. I then divide by the total games played and that gives me the average....
Im sorry that DJ did better than Ray but that had to do totally with the +/-. You put together a team with 12 guys that are always in the + and you will win most of your games, I dont care if you are the Lakers, Celtics or our Bobcats you wll win most of your games. If you put a team together with everyone in the - you will lose most of your games... Its all math and math dont lie....:cool:
spectre
10-26-2009, 03:45 PM
+/- stat is pretty worthless IMO, esp. if you're trying to rank one player vs. another.
If Hendo goes against some scrub and lights him up (say +20) vs. Raja going against Kobe and matches him in scoring (that would be 0) does that mean Hendo did the better job?
DJ tied for the best +/- vs. the Griz and he shot 1 for 11.
davcbow
10-26-2009, 03:48 PM
+/- stat is pretty worthless IMO, esp. if you're trying to rank one player vs. another.
If Hendo goes against some scrub and lights him up (say +20) vs. Raja going against Kobe and matches him in scoring (that would be 0) does that mean Hendo did the better job?
DJ tied for the best +/- vs. the Griz and he shot 1 for 11.
+/- is a combination of offense and defense....you are thinking offense:cool:
+/- is a combination of offense and defense....you are thinking offense:cool:
Still. 1/11, no matter your D, is still a shitty game.
No way you should be on top. +/- is ok for reference, but only as a 5-man group. Not a single player...
davcbow
10-26-2009, 03:54 PM
Still. 1/11, no matter your D, is still a shitty game.
No way you should be on top. +/- is ok for reference, but only as a 5-man group. Not a single player...
Instead of complaining to me about it guys complain to the NBA they use it for a reason and the reason is the same reason I use it....:cool:
something else the +/- also takes into consideration the other 4 guys on the court....
spectre
10-26-2009, 03:54 PM
+/- is a combination of offense and defense....you are thinking offense:cool:
It's just a generic point differential between when the player is on the court vs. off the court. It also doesn't take into account who's on the court with the player nor who he's going against.
You're seriously not trying to say that DJ was just so damn good defensively that with that poor shooting he was still the best player on the floor for us are you?
And this has nothing to do with DJ; we can go hit up every game and argue that with whoever had the best (or worst) +/-.
Instead of complaining to me about it guys complain to the NBA they use it for a reason and the reason is the same reason I use it....:cool:
LOL what the NBA uses doesn't matter. It's what the teams use. All that ever matters are PPG, RPG, APG, BPG, SPG, and maybe A/TO to the masses.
spectre
10-26-2009, 04:00 PM
Last year LB used Crash most with the bench...and last year the bench stunk. Since Crash +/- was negative for almost all of the stretches he was in with the bench does that mean he's not as good as the starters who didn't play with the bench?
davcbow
10-26-2009, 04:01 PM
Teej its works and it speaks the truth... now if you want to do it your way with out using the +/- then:
Felts would have 24 more points giving him 138 /8 = 17.25
Dj would have 13 less points giving him 123 /8 = 15.375
happy now?:biggrin:
dav7z
10-26-2009, 08:03 PM
Teej its works and it speaks the truth... now if you want to do it your way with out using the +/- then:
Felts would have 24 more points giving him 138 /8 = 17.25
Dj would have 13 less points giving him 123 /8 = 15.375
happy now?:biggrin:
davcbow i don't know about your system but its a good thread .
With out any thing to base it on . Hears a few of my thoughts. See how it stacks up to you guys.
Larry Brown= coaching b+
Offence=D
Defence=c
Felton = Looked solid . To many turnovers , Less bad shots better% = C
DJ= Better defence , stronger, Worse shooting % =c
Bell= worse shooting by far , lost a step on defence early season=D-
Flip = bad shots , no passing average defence=D-
Henderson= decent shooting , ill advised shots, Good defence and rebounding=C
Wallace= Half speed , Didn't attack , only average on defence .holding back= C+ Radmann= Nice shot, bad defence . bad on the boards , to many t/o = D-
Brown= Decent shot .average rebounding . average defence=C
Diaw= ok shot, average defence, to many t/o out of shape =D-
Lex= Decent shot, good defence, good energy =C+
Nazz= Good shot. average defence , decent on boards. solid. = B-
Diop= Bad shot , defence slow. boards brlow average , Preseason = F
TC= shot little below average, defence good, boards good =c
Graham= Shot below average, defence average, Foul pronged amd to many t/o=D-
about how i saw preseason.
Note Graham needs to be cut to add another secent body.......
Note Graham needs to be cut to add another secent body.......
We still have a roster spot...
And I think you were being a bit harsh on the guys.
davcbow
10-26-2009, 08:41 PM
davcbow i don't know about your system but its a good thread .
With out any thing to base it on . Hears a few of my thoughts. See how it stacks up to you guys.
Larry Brown= coaching b+
Offence=D
Defence=c
Felton = Looked solid . To many turnovers , Less bad shots better% = C
DJ= Better defence , stronger, Worse shooting % =c
Bell= worse shooting by far , lost a step on defence early season=D-
Flip = bad shots , no passing average defence=D-
Henderson= decent shooting , ill advised shots, Good defence and rebounding=C
Wallace= Half speed , Didn't attack , only average on defence .holding back= C+ Radmann= Nice shot, bad defence . bad on the boards , to many t/o = D-
Brown= Decent shot .average rebounding . average defence=C
Diaw= ok shot, average defence, to many t/o out of shape =D-
Lex= Decent shot, good defence, good energy =C+
Nazz= Good shot. average defence , decent on boards. solid. = B-
Diop= Bad shot , defence slow. boards brlow average , Preseason = F
TC= shot little below average, defence good, boards good =c
Graham= Shot below average, defence average, Foul pronged amd to many t/o=D-
about how i saw preseason.
Note Graham needs to be cut to add another secent body.......
Dav7z our 2 scales run pretty close together.....:cool:
etothet
10-26-2009, 10:34 PM
It works off the +/- .... When DJ was in the game they scored 13 more points with him in the game. When Ray was in the game they scored 24 less points. The +/- works off combined offense and defense play throughout the entire 8 games. It dont apply to only offense and it dont apply to only defense but it does apply to both offense and defense. I take the +/- and add ORB, add DRB, add AST, subtract PF, add Steals, subtract Turn Overs, Add BS, Add BA, and add Points which gives the total. I then divide by the total games played and that gives me the average....
Im sorry that DJ did better than Ray but that had to do totally with the +/-. You put together a team with 12 guys that are always in the + and you will win most of your games, I dont care if you are the Lakers, Celtics or our Bobcats you wll win most of your games. If you put a team together with everyone in the - you will lose most of your games... Its all math and math dont lie....:cool:
It is not about Ray. I just don't think the system adequately determined the best player during this preseason. I am not caught up in the Ray vs DJ thing. I want them both to succeed, but when you start ranking, it should reflect overall performance throughout the preseason.
davcbow
10-27-2009, 01:12 AM
It is not about Ray. I just don't think the system adequately determined the best player during this preseason. I am not caught up in the Ray vs DJ thing. I want them both to succeed, but when you start ranking, it should reflect overall performance throughout the preseason.
The only thing I didnt averaage in was FG% 3's% and FT% only because I wasnt sure how to....:cool:
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