This Really Pisses Me Off...

[BobcatsAllDay]

Everywhere I look publications have the 76ers and the Bulls ahead of the Bobcats. The 76ers are starting Louis Williams at the most important role on the floor. Louis Williams played primarily off the ball last year and he is a scoring guard by nature. With that said how in the world can you have this team ahead of the Bobcats?? Andre Miller was a headache last year and I for one am glad to see him on the west coast. I feel like all of the "experts" are overlooking his absence big time.

On to the Bulls, I love Derrick Rose and I think he will be one of the great PGs in the league if he picks from that playoff series vs the Celtics. But they too lost a Bobcat headache in Ben Gordon and in my opinion did not come close to replacing him (they may think so with Janero Pargo but I'll take my chances w/ him over BG any day). The rest of their roster does not scare me at all.

I want to add the Pistons to this conversation but I will hold off on that until I see what production if any they receive from their big men. I'm not saying the Bobcats are far better than the teams mentioned above but I can't say these teams are on another level. At the end of the year the Pistons, Bulls, 76ers, and Bobcats will be fighting to get into playoff position in the East, IMO.

[teej]

I (and most here) agree, but until we get into the playoffs, we won't earn the respect of the media, and thus, won't get anything from them.

[Walt Cronkite]

Iguodala will initiate a lot of the offense in Philly. Chicago lost Gordon, but picked up Salmons at the deadline, who will do a fine job of replacing BG.

Detroit's success revolves around Stuckey.

[teej]

^Which is why Detriot will suck.

Salmons may or may not do well, last year was his first season of doing anything, really. And Iggy is good, but he can't carry a team.

[BRNC]

Yes but both of those teams made the playoffs and we did not...as someone pointed out earlier...until we do the media has no reason to give us any respect...and I get it...I don't like it but I get it...:facepalm:

[Walt Cronkite]

The Bulls are the most talented team Salmons has been a member of and he did great. Iggy has been carrying Philadelphia since Iverson's departure and they've been good enough to make the playoffs... not sure why you think he can't carry a team or for that matter why it matters (since we don't have a better team carrying option anyway).

[CatNation]

You know what pisses me off?

That I will probably only get to see 10-15 games this year on anything other than JustinTV/Gamecast.

[teej]

The Bulls are the most talented team Salmons has been a member of and he did great. Iggy has been carrying Philadelphia since Iverson's departure and they've been good enough to make the playoffs... not sure why you think he can't carry a team or for that matter why it matters (since we don't have a better team carrying option anyway).

They've been good enough to make the playoffs with a great PG in Miller, who is now gone. Unless Brand shows up, it's all on Iggy for the first time in his career. And how's the coaching situation working there?

And Salmons did great because he was a third or fourth option. Now he's number two, and the first guy D. Rose is looking to. We'll see how it works. I'm not saying it can't, I just don't trust him (not that I trust TC, Ray, or DJ either).

[ND22]

Iggy is very good in my opinion, and I'm sure the analysts are predicting Brand will be back to full speed. When Brand is on, he's one of the best in the league for his position. Thad Young is also becoming a pretty good player. Miller was good but I think Louis Williams can step in for him.

As for the Bulls, I agree. Last years team with Ben Gordon barely made the playoffs, and had we not melted down in the last 8 games of the season it may have been us in that 8 spot instead of them. Rose is very good but he's going to have to put the team on his back. Deng and Salmons are good, but not great, and I'm still not a fan of Noah.

So yeah I'd put us ahead of Chicago and behind Phili.

[BobcatsAllDay]

I (and most here) agree, but until we get into the playoffs, we won't earn the respect of the media, and thus, won't get anything from them.

I totally understand this attitude by the media but the more previews I read it's almost as if it's a given some of these teams will repeat the success of last year with big holes to fill; Philly (Miller), Bulls (Gordon/something off the bench), Pistons (Wallace, McDyess).

[Walt Cronkite]

They've been good enough to make the playoffs with a great PG in Miller, who is now gone. Unless Brand shows up, it's all on Iggy for the first time in his career. And how's the coaching situation working there?

And Salmons did great because he was a third or fourth option. Now he's number two, and the first guy D. Rose is looking to. We'll see how it works. I'm not saying it can't, I just don't trust him (not that I trust TC, Ray, or DJ either).

You really think Andre Miller is a "great" PG? He played well in Philly, but there was no question who the opposition was game planning against. The 6ers have been his since Iverson was shipped out of town. Miller definitely helped, his presence will be missed, but Iggy has been a capable carrier of the team for seasons now, which is where this discussion began.

Salmons was not the third or fourth option in Sacramento, where his statistics were nearly identical. K$$$$$$ was out hurt for a lot of those games, so there was even more focus on him. Deng/Salmons/Hinrich will provide fine wing options for the Bulls, their success will more likely sink or swim on the play of Miller/Thomas/Noah

[teej]

You really think Andre Miller is a "great" PG? He played well in Philly, but there was no question who the opposition was game planning against. The 6ers have been his since Iverson was shipped out of town. Miller definitely helped, his presence will be missed, but Iggy has been a capable carrier of the team for seasons now, which is where this discussion began.

Salmons was not the third or fourth option in Sacramento, where his statistics were nearly identical. K$$$$$$ was out hurt for a lot of those games, so there was even more focus on him. Deng/Salmons/Hinrich will provide fine wing options for the Bulls, their success will more likely sink or swim on the play of Miller/Thomas/Noah

Not great as in all-time, but great compared to some of the others in the league now. I'd take him two years ago over Ray or DJ for a season.

And guys take days off against the Queens, that's why Martin and then Salmons had/have good numbers. That and someone has to score. And the other names you listed are either overrated, or just flat out can't play. Chi-Town isn't as good as us, unless I'm a horrible judge of talent (which is totally possible)

[Walt Cronkite]

Of all the places I wouldn't expect to see the "teams take the night off against the[insert bad team here]" argument, it was the Bobcat homer forum.

So when player X on bad team A is going off against lots of teams, it's only because players v, w, x, y and z are letting him do their thing, because it doesn't matter as long as they win. No one on the good teams has the pride to say, "whoa, this scrub is NOT going to bust us anymore, we're making someone else step up--let's blow out these scrubs!"

Who of Luol Deng, Kurt Hinrich, John Salmons, Tyrus Thomas, Joakim Noah or Brad Miller is OVERRATED? All of those guys have useful roles and would get heavy rotation minutes on our team. LB would love Noah, Thomas and Miller would both be better options than Mohammed or Diop. I'm definitely willing to question your talent judgement.

[teej]

Of all the places I wouldn't expect to see the "teams take the night off against the[insert bad team here]" argument, it was the Bobcat homer forum.

So when player X on bad team A is going off against lots of teams, it's only because players v, w, x, y and z are letting him do their thing, because it doesn't matter as long as they win. No one on the good teams has the pride to say, "whoa, this scrub is NOT going to bust us anymore, we're making someone else step up--let's blow out these scrubs!"

Who of Luol Deng, Kurt Hinrich, John Salmons, Tyrus Thomas, Joakim Noah or Brad Miller is OVERRATED? All of those guys have useful roles and would get heavy rotation minutes on our team. LB would love Noah, Thomas and Miller would both be better options than Mohammed or Diop. I'm definitely willing to question your talent judgement.

No, they don't have enough pride. They're getting paid more per game than the per capita income of the US, and one loss doesn't make a difference. Sportscenter still shows their highlights, and they weren't on national tv. Vinsanity is a prime example of this. And yes, people take nights off against the 'Cats, too. Like the Lakers...

And Hinrich and Deng is overpaid, Thomas is massivly overrated because of the series he had with Boston, Noah is ehh, and Miller (though I love him for being a Hornet) is 33, and was a better Bull the first time...

[Walt Cronkite]

How is Vince Carter a prime example? He wanted out of Toronto so he could play with a better team. A prime example would be someone like Jerome James, but he's a scrub. The top level players are there because they have busted their asses for years, especially the guys that are on winning teams.

Your arguments are all over the place. I initially objected to the idea that Ben Gordon leaving the Bulls and Andre Miller going to Portland were going to have major impacts on Chicago and Philadelphia. You had to chime in with your opinion that Iguodala cannot carry a team (despite the fact he's been doing it for multiple seasons now) and that Salmons is unproven.

I follow Philly, the 6ers need Brand to justify his contract or they are beyond screwed. Since Andre Miller didn't play well with Brand, I don't think there are any conclusions to be drawn until some games have been played regarding their success relative to our own. Lou Williams is totally obsolete though, since he's a scoring guard that will not be responsible for initiating the offense. As I wrote in my op to in this thread, Iguodala is the player responsible for running the offense in Philly.

Some people love Ben Gordon, I don't count myself among them. Maybe that is where the big difference in our assessments of the Bulls falls.

[teej]

How is Vince Carter a prime example?

I don't know, maybe the fact that he hasn't given his all for any team since 2000? If you seriously believe he gave his all night in and night out with all those teams, I can't take anything you say seriously. He quit on the Nets each year, and the Raptors too. Although I think he's recommited with the Magic, now.


Some people love Ben Gordon, I don't count myself among them. Maybe that is where the big difference in our assessments of the Bulls falls.

Probably. And me being the same way with Salmons. Agree to disagree.

[Walt Cronkite]

Way to pick apart another post of mine in order to argue the points you choose to while ignoring the others. You make Bobcatsplanet a hassle to contribute to.