The Future

[Toocool]

Looking at our Bobcats roster, I'm wondering where we're heading in the future.

First we have four "keys" to the future if I would say.
These four are:

Alexis Ajinca
Gerald Henderson
D.J Augustine
Derrick Brown

We all know that LB isn't that much of a fan of playing rookies, and likes to give game-time to his senior members more (i.e Crash, Bell, Diaw). Therefore alotta benchwarming for Hendo and UPS.

So where does the future lie with the Bobcats?

Next year we'll have alot of superstars out on offer with the FA.
Bosh, Wade, James to name a few, but with our salary cap we won't be able to get one of these superstars due to several fellas being heavily overpaid i.e Diop, Mohammed, Vlad Rad

So would the question be to trade Vlad Rad and Diop, and possibly future round picks for a superstar, or start with building up our rookies?

I personally would like to see Diop and Vlad outta here, Vlad is somewhat sub-par for the minutes he's receiving, and with Diop we need a scorer, not someone who can't score at all.

Your thoughts on the future?

Oh and before I forget, keep LB on for another 2 years or so.

[spectre]

Our future is in 2011 when we will have maximum capspace. There's no one on this squad with the possible exception of Crash that warrants the word "future" IMO.

Some like DJ & Henderson have potential to be...but to date nothing's set in stone.

[Chef]

by 2011, crash's future will have come and gone. he will only have a few quality years left.

[dav7z]

Our future is in 2011 when we will have maximum capspace. There's no one on this squad with the possible exception of Crash that warrants the word "future" IMO.

Some like DJ & Henderson have potential to be...but to date nothing's set in stone.

, Players like Felton have proved to be support cast. DJ, Hendo , Lexy are looking for starting jobs and long contracts, This team could go a lot of ways . I don't really see a conor stone including Crash, He could make some cotender a great 2nd or 3rd option.
Its not a team in the league thet gives us a 2nd round pick for Diop , In 2011 , the new direction of the team will be more clear.

[BRNC]

Vlad and Diop (IMO) can only be traded for worse contracts than theirs at this point...I hope that changes but I don't see it happening in the near future...

[Walt Cronkite]

Looking at our Bobcats roster, I'm wondering where we're heading in the future.

First we have four "keys" to the future if I would say.
These four are:

Alexis Ajinca
Gerald Henderson
D.J Augustine
Derrick Brown

We all know that LB isn't that much of a fan of playing rookies, and likes to give game-time to his senior members more (i.e Crash, Bell, Diaw). Therefore alotta benchwarming for Hendo and UPS.

So where does the future lie with the Bobcats?

Next year we'll have alot of superstars out on offer with the FA.
Bosh, Wade, James to name a few, but with our salary cap we won't be able to get one of these superstars due to several fellas being heavily overpaid i.e Diop, Mohammed, Vlad Rad

So would the question be to trade Vlad Rad and Diop, and possibly future round picks for a superstar, or start with building up our rookies?

I personally would like to see Diop and Vlad outta here, Vlad is somewhat sub-par for the minutes he's receiving, and with Diop we need a scorer, not someone who can't score at all.

Your thoughts on the future?

Oh and before I forget, keep LB on for another 2 years or so.

This is totally untrue and if we all know it, then we're all fools. http://www.basketball-reference.com/coaches/brownla01c.html --find a player in the last two decades that had talent and didn't play, much less a rookie.

Here, I'll do most of the work for you. Here's a list of guys that probably didn't get as many minutes as rookies compared to the success they had over their careers: Tony Massenberg, Elliot Perry, Mark Strickland, Travis Best, Fred Hoiberg.

Massenberg arguably should've played over Sidney Green and Dave Greenwood (in his final career), but I'm thinking he wasn't very good since a year later he played 18 games for 4 different teams. I also think it's fair to give LB a pass here, since rookies David Robinson and Sean Elliott both got 37+ mpg.

I'll admit to not being familiar with Elliot Perry, but statistically he had good years in his mid 20s and a last hurrah at 30. LB played guards Charles Grant, Doc Rivers, Bo Kimble and Danny Young more minutes than him. Of those, I can only say that I've seen Doc play before for certain.

Mark Strickland had a nice career but didn't get many opportunities as a rookie with Derrick McKey, Dale Davis and Antonio Davis all logging heavy minutes at his position. Maybe he should've played over LaSalle Thompson, John Williams and Greg Kite, maybe he wasn't ready yet.

I remember Travis Best being good, but looking over his career, maybe I overrated him because I was only 10 when he was a rookie. Haywoode Workman got the backup PG minutes behind Mark Jackson. Best still got close to 10 minutes a game. Hoiberg had to pick up minutes behind Miller, Johnson and Pierce, who were all good. Duane Ferrell was not, but maybe he brought something on defense that Hoiberg wasn't ready for.

This leads to the 76ers, who are going to require some more time, but I need to do some other things first. So far though, you had to have some really good players ahead of you to not get significant minutes as a rookie under LB. It's actually more damning if you didn't play much, because in almost every circumstance you were awful, or a Mark Strickland/Fred Hoiberg type guy.

[spectre]

Heh...I can see you having to repeat that ad nauseam just like I had to repeat over and over about Felton's BYC last summer.

Good luck.

[dnbman]

Heh...I can see you having to repeat that ad nauseam just like I had to repeat over and over about Felton's BYC last summer.

Good luck.

Speaking of Felton and this past summer, I wish we would have traded him!

But, then we'd be stuck with rookies, and Brown wouldn't have played any of them.





:D

[Walt Cronkite]

As promised earlier, part 2.

LB’s Philly era isn’t as cut and dry as the near decade before it. There were many rookies brought, excluding the scrubs that were quickly out of the league (or never in it) we have: Anthony Parker, Tim Thomas, Nazr Mohammed, Larry Hughes, Jumaine Jones, Todd MacCulloch, Raja Bell, Speedy Claxton, Samuel Dalembert, and John Salmons. Of those, Parker, Mohammed, McCulloch, Jones, Bell, Dalembert and Salmons got less than 10 mpg as rookies (9.4 for McCulloch). Thomas, Hughes and Claxton all played more than 20mpg, but the guys getting less than 10mpg are pretty good, so what gives?

Anthony Parker’s career was jump started in Tel Aviv, where he became one of the best Euroleague players of all time. Since then, he’s been a consistent player who’s noted for his defense. I’m not sure why he fell out of the NBA, wiki mentions that he was “largely plagued by injury”. Since he seems like an LB type player, I think it’s safe to assume that the injury excuse is probably valid. LB played Jim Jackson and Aaron McKie at his position a lot, but neither had very good seasons. Without knowing more details, I’ll concede that this is a good example of a time when LB probably should’ve played a rookie, but thought veterans would be the key to making the playoffs. They missed the playoffs and let AP slip away. Whoops.

Nazr Mohammed has never played well for Larry Brown. I don’t know if it’s personal, but it’s true. Last season, when everyone was shocked at how few minutes Naz was getting, he still got more minutes than his first two seasons in the league. The best explanation I can offer is that Theo Ratliff was in his prime. This was the last above average year of Geiger’s career and both of those guys were getting more than 30mpg. I’d suggest that the 50 game lockout season had something to do with it, but his minutes didn’t really increase a year later and the roster was largely the same. (In fact, he only appeared in 2 more games in year two despite his team having an additional 32. OUCH!!) Best explanation I can come up with is that something about Mohammed’s playing style rubs LB the wrong way.

Todd MacCulloch got just under 10 mpg in his rookie year. He was efficient in his limited minutes and filled in nicely for the declining Geiger. Stole minutes at the 5 from sophomore Naz.

Jumaine Jones would have the most efficient year of his career as a sophomore, but his rookie year was not so great. He had Lynch, McKie, Kukoc, Hughes, Billy Owens and Bruce Bowen ahead of him on the roster. Billy Owens wasn’t very good at this point though, so maybe Jones should’ve had some of his 20mpg. Not sure if Owens was known for his defense or not.

Raja Bell provides the knee jerk reaction that would support a comment like “SEE! LB doesn’t like to play rookies that will go on to be good players!”, but remember, he was an undrafted FA out of Florida Int’l. I think LB really saw a lot of potential in Raja and made him his pet project, since a year later Bell would start 12 games and log 12mpg for the season.

Dalembert didn’t play very much as a rookie (5.2 mpg in 34 games) and didn’t play at all the following season. As a rook he missed 28 games due to injury and had arthroscopic knee surgery in his second year. In his first year of full health, he got 27mpg, but Randy Ayers and Chris Ford had taken over the coaching duties by then. Which leads me to:

LB’S DETROIT PISTON STINT AKA THE DARKO MILICIC FIASCO

Only three rookies would appear on the roster during LB’s tenure in Motown: Darko, Carlos Delfino, and Horace Jenkins. Delfino logged 15.3 mpg in 30 games as a rookie. Darko? Only 4.7 in 34. Despite the facts that Milicic is awful and one of the (perhaps THE) worst #2 picks of all-time, he is fully responsible for creating a negative stigma that surrounds Larry Brown to this day--that he is unwilling to play capable rookies. A rep that he didn’t shake in NY while playing Channing Frye 24.2mpg, Nate Robinson 21.4mpg and David Lee 16.9mpg. What is even more frustrating is that too many Bobcat fans hold on to this reputation despite DJ Augustin logging 26.5mpg a year ago.

I know this was long, so I realize that the primary propagators of this fictional assessment are unlikely to read it, but it was long in order to make a strong point. Larry Brown, FOR ALMOST TWO DECADES, has a strong history of playing his best, most game ready players, experience be damned. I’m gonna go ahead and bookmark this thread so I can reference it easily when this ridiculous notion next arises, which I expect to be sooner than later. Tragically, I wrote a much better post on realgm probably less than a year ago, but it was lost to that site’s nonexistent search engine. For shame!

[BigE]

If Alexis Ajinca is apart of our future plans then we are headed in the wrong direction...

[teej]

If Alexis Ajinca is apart of our future plans then we are headed in the wrong direction...

Have you watched him play this season???? Offensively, he actually looks more than serviceable. And this should be his rookie year. You can't really judge defense yet due to him only playing in the 4th quarter, but it hasn't been awful. Why are you so down on him anyway?

[davcbow]

Have you watched him play this season???? Offensively, he actually looks more than serviceable. And this should be his rookie year. You can't really judge defense yet due to him only playing in the 4th quarter, but it hasn't been awful. Why are you so down on him anyway?

I 2nd that....:cool:

[KT#20]

Based on the 182 minutes he played last season, Ajinca sucks. I'm glad he's done well in a whopping 11 minutes this season, but that's no reason to consider him part of our future at this point. We have no legitimate backup power forward, yet he's still not playing. That should tell you something.

[BigE]

Have you watched him play this season???? Offensively, he actually looks more than serviceable. And this should be his rookie year. You can't really judge defense yet due to him only playing in the 4th quarter, but it hasn't been awful. Why are you so down on him anyway?

Because he's not as good as you guys are making him out to be, he's just another soft european player that won't make it in the NBA. I'm not sure he even understands how to play in the NBA, heck he doesn't even understand his own contract and that we picked up his 3rd year option (horrible mistake IMO). I just wish we would've used that pick on someone else, think about it when we do make the playoffs and the Nuggets get our 1st round pick we will be stuck with a scrub and they will end up getting a very good player. You can disagree with me but deep down inside you all know he's just another european scrub.

[TheBeagle]

Derrick Brown is the future!

About Lexy, what worries me is his work ethic. I've heard great things about Derrick, for example, working his ass off in practice, yet that's something, even going back to last year, I never heard of Lexy. Nonetheless, the dude is still just a kid and in his second year in America, and was drafted as an admitted project, so to write him off at this point is jumping the gun.



Oh, and Elliot Perry was this small, wiry PG from Memphis State (yep, back then before they took the "State" away) who wore goggles and high socks and was a journeyman who even spent some time in Charlotte in '91 I believe and had a really good year in PHX (think that must've been the good 30 year you mentioned, Walt).

[ohara831]

Here's a real kick in the balls. On ESPN Insider, John Hollinger and Chad Ford just did an article on the future of each NBA team from 2010 -2013. Trailblazers are #1. The Bobcats come in dead LAST! The most hopeless NBA team in existence. Nice. There's a future for you to look forward to guys.

[davcbow]

I think ESPN is a bunch of stuff shirt know it alls that really never are right except for the for sure thing which any one of us could predict any ways... I don't think ESPN ever "COULD GO ALL THE WAY"...

[Chef]

traditionally, espn does suck when it comes to the bobcats. but here are few points I came up to partially agree with john and chad:

1. who will be our owner?
2. will we be in Char?
3. who wants to come here to play?
4. what do we have to build around/attract a big name?
5. how do we acquire a future with limited draft picks?
6. do we really want to trust our future with MJ's drafting/player evaluation?
7. no national tv games, ever. i mean, seriously?

[davcbow]

traditionally, espn does suck when it comes to the bobcats. but here are few points I came up to partially agree with john and chad:

1. who will be our owner?
2. will we be in Char?
3. who wants to come here to play?
4. what do we have to build around/attract a big name?
5. how do we acquire a future with limited draft picks?
6. do we really want to trust our future with MJ's drafting/player evaluation?
7. no national tv games, ever. i mean, seriously?

1) Good Question but I think it will be Bob J, because I read somewhere that he never really intended in selling the team...
2) We will be here, cost way too much for them to get out of their contracts and move.
3) Good Question....
4) DJ, UPS, Hendo
5) LB is good at drafting, do trades for draft picks...
6) With LB as coach yes
7) Thats not our fault.....:cool:

[Chef]

30. Charlotte Bobcats | Future Power Rating: 214


PLAYERS MANAGEMENT MONEY MARKET DRAFT
46 (30th) 32 (28th) 60 (29th) 22 (27th) 54 (12th)


Click the image to open in full size.
If you think the Bobcats' present is bad, just wait 'til you see their future.
Charlotte ranked as the league's most hopeless franchise in our survey, finishing in the bottom four in every category except one. Even that category, the draft, came with an asterisk: Charlotte ranked well because we expect it to struggle and get high picks, but a future choice it foolishly traded away for the rights to Alexis Ajinca last year could end up costing the Cats a high lottery pick. That's why they ranked only 12th rather than in the top four.
There's not much to like here. Charlotte has no cap space until 2011 at the earliest, limited financial resources and a rep for being tight-fisted, ranking the Bobcats 29th in the money category. The Queen City is a small market with no buzz, placing the Bobcats 27th in the market category. And the roster is nothing to write home about either, as D.J. Augustin is the only young player with anything remotely resembling star potential. Most of the other key players are in their late 20s and will be getting worse, not better, in coming years.
Finally, there's the management -- only Golden State's and Memphis' rated worse. Owner Robert Johnson has seemed to be in over his head from Day 1, while Managing Member of Basketball Operations Michael Jordan allegedly runs the team while mulling which iron to play from a fairway bunker in Illinois. That's left impulsive coach Larry Brown shaping a lot of the day-to-day personnel decisions, with rash moves like the Ajinca trade and the Emeka Okafor-Tyson Chandler deal resulting.
__________________

[Chef]

1) Good Question but I think it will be Bob J, because I read somewhere that he never really intended in selling the team...
2) We will be here, cost way too much for them to get out of their contracts and move.
3) Good Question....
4) DJ, UPS, Hendo
5) LB is good at drafting, do trades for draft picks...
6) With LB as coach yes
7) Thats not our fault.....:cool:

4. with the exception of dj, none of these guys or AA will ever be better than a 3rd option. hendo 4th or 5th offensively

5. LB won't be here in 2 years

6. Again, LB doesn't exactly have a long track record of sticking around through thick and thin

7. that is our fault, sign a better tv deal. michael thompson said last year, we won't have any national tv games due to contract stuff

[davcbow]

Doom and gloom all doom and gloom..... Think we should just pick a new team to pull for since its so hopeless?

[Chef]

quite the contrary. bobcats ride or die, it makes it all the more rewarding when they come around. but, we don't have to be blind followers. it is important to remember that most draft picks become role players or worse, so i am not expecting to be drafting like okc, they are the exception not the rule. it is most concerning that our owner does not want to spend money, because players aren't coming here for the location.

[spectre]

3. Money (0 to 100 points): Projected salary-cap situation; ability and willingness to exceed cap and pay luxury tax.

Interestingly...on the money part these astute individuals ranked Milwaukee 21st. They are up to the cap next season but will have only 25.5 on the books in 2011. Their owner will spend up to the luxury tax but has drawn a firm line at going over.

Charlotte is up to the cap next season but will have only 33 million on the books in 2011. Our owner will spend up to the luxury tax but has drawn a firm line at going over.

Milwaukee was 21st in "money"...we were 29th.


it is most concerning that our owner does not want to spend money, because players aren't coming here for the location.

How is ownership not spending money? Why should he go into the luxury tax and lose not only the 1 for 1 penalty but the 4 million in revenue sharing for a team that has yet to get into the playoffs?

If it was a no brainer then sure...but for someone like say Warrick? Hell no.

[ohara831]

Doom and gloom all doom and gloom..... Think we should just pick a new team to pull for since its so hopeless?

Of course it isn't that bad. But to say LB is good at drafting? How can you say that? DJ vs Brook Lopez is not looking so good right now. Henderson was the best left at that point, and the Lexy trade is looking like a complete mistake. No way can you say LB is good at drafting; not based on his record to date.

[spectre]

Of course it isn't that bad. But to say LB is good at drafting? How can you say that? DJ vs Brook Lopez is not looking so good right now. Henderson was the best left at that point, and the Lexy trade is looking like a complete mistake. No way can you say LB is good at drafting; not based on his record to date.

I have to agree. Just like in everything else LB tends to fall in and out of love way too easily with players.

[davcbow]

Of course it isn't that bad. But to say LB is good at drafting? How can you say that? DJ vs Brook Lopez is not looking so good right now. Henderson was the best left at that point, and the Lexy trade is looking like a complete mistake. No way can you say LB is good at drafting; not based on his record to date.

So you are saying LB is the problem not the solution? I think he has done a hell of a lot better than his predecessor's.....You guys do remember that when LB drafted DJ that it was still unsure if Ray could handle the point or not.
Yeah Brooks would have been the better pick, hind sight is better than fore sight, no use crying over spilled milk, just hope LB don't have to make those difficult decisions again like the Lexy vs draft pick issue. This team was in shambles when crack king I mean Ham Biscuit left so he had to pick a direction and go with it, which is what he did and why he made the decisions he made....:cool:

[spectre]

LB is flat awesome at some things...others not so much. There's a reason most teams who were successful with LB had a GM who can stand up to him somewhat.

Granted, him choosing the pick is definitely better than his predecessors.

[Walt Cronkite]

I would like to see LB move to the fo when his contract expires. I think he could build a nice team faster if he didn't have to deal with his players so directly.

[teej]

I would like to see LB move to the fo when his contract expires. I think he could build a nice team faster if he didn't have to deal with his players so directly.

Something that will never happen.

He loves coaching practice more than games. He won't go be a suit, he'd rather coach HS ball...

[Walt Cronkite]

He had a FO position with Philly before he came to Charlotte, did he not?

[teej]

He had a FO position with Philly before he came to Charlotte, did he not?

He was Executive VP, but he spent a lot of time around college coaches watching and helping out. I don't know what he actually did in Philly.

[spectre]

He had a FO position with Philly before he came to Charlotte, did he not?

He was more "hiding" out with friends after the NY debacle. Even then he was looking for a coaching gig and was thinking hard about college (which one escapes me).

[Walt Cronkite]

Fine. Coach/GM. The guy is going to walk away from the game eventually because he wants to be like Dean Smith. He's already ancient, has to be at least 60.

[teej]

Fine. Coach/GM. The guy is going to walk away from the game eventually because he wants to be like Dean Smith. He's already ancient, has to be at least 60.

He pretty much IS coach/GM (not like MJ's saying no to him) and he's 69...

[spectre]

Who, LB? Dude's 69!

I figure once he leaves here he'll either go coach some college team or else take some position in our FO if MJ is still here.

And yeah, Teej is right. At most LB got pushed into dealing for Chandler (and even then I think he preferred someone other than Mek), but I think the rest are his choices. (Teej that's 2! :p )

[Walt Cronkite]

Come on, you guys... I obviously knew LB was old. Jokes, we call em.

[Walt Cronkite]

I retract my coach/gm comment though. I'm not going to argue Teej about it, because I'm sure he's convinced that LB will coach until he's dead and the Philly stint was just some anomaly, but I don't buy it. He looks tired. He has a young kid, who iirc is still in Philly with mom (not sure if they've moved, I know this was the case late last season).

We need a gm that can stick up to LB, this is true. It's just not going to happen as long as Bob is paying the bills and letting MJ make major decisions. LB is the biggest asset the team has, I think he'd embrace a job where he builds a team and has a young coach he really believes in doing the day to day things. Like Pat Riley did in Miami with Spolestra and SVG before him.

[ohara831]

Let's allow it to sink in:

Brook Lopez: 18 pts 7.7. reb 2.3 blks

Mek: 10.9 pts 10.5 reb 2.0 blks

TC: 7.5 pts 7.7 reb 1.3 blks (entering tonight's game)

Guys, let's just say it. We screwed up taking DJ over Lopez. And I miss Mek. I think I'll just throw up now and go to bed.

[teej]

I retract my coach/gm comment though. I'm not going to argue Teej about it, because I'm sure he's convinced that LB will coach until he's dead and the Philly stint was just some anomaly, but I don't buy it. He looks tired. He has a young kid, who iirc is still in Philly with mom (not sure if they've moved, I know this was the case late last season).

We need a gm that can stick up to LB, this is true. It's just not going to happen as long as Bob is paying the bills and letting MJ make major decisions. LB is the biggest asset the team has, I think he'd embrace a job where he builds a team and has a young coach he really believes in doing the day to day things. Like Pat Riley did in Miami with Spolestra and SVG before him.

I actually think that this is LB's final NBA job, and after this he's going to coach somewhere where he won't be seen by the national media and he can just teach. I think you're right about the family, except I think the kid is getting to be about HS age, so maybe LB goes and coaches the HS?

And you're absolutely right that we need a GM with a backbone, and you're also right that that isn't happening with Bobby J in town. But I don't see LB willingly giving up the coaching duties to be a suit. The Philly thing was just a way for him to regain his rep.

[teej]

Guys, let's just say it. We screwed up taking DJ over Lopez. And I miss Mek. I think I'll just throw up now and go to bed.

Rushing to judgement FTW.

And I don't miss Mek and his panties one bit.

[Demon DeaCat]

Let's allow it to sink in:

Brook Lopez: 18 pts 7.7. reb 2.3 blks

Mek: 10.9 pts 10.5 reb 2.0 blks

TC: 7.5 pts 7.7 reb 1.3 blks (entering tonight's game)

Guys, let's just say it. We screwed up taking DJ over Lopez. And I miss Mek. I think I'll just throw up now and go to bed.

I don't know. Hindsight is obviously 20/20. I can see why we took DJ over Lopez and I actually agreed with it at the time. We already had a pretty solid C in Mek and it's not like Lopez was a can't miss guy who was destined to be a star. We had no depth at PG and DJ was probably a safer bet to be a good player. It seemed logical enough at the time.

Of course, now that TC is our C instead of Mek it's easy to say we should have taken Lopez. Who wouldn't rather have Lopez than TC right now. But despite his slow start this year DJ is still extremely talented and has the tools to be a VERY good player, so it's not like it was a wasted pick. I'm way more frustrated at trading Mek for TC than I am with drafting DJ over Lopez.

[BRNC]

...and to a great degree second guessing is a waste of time...and many us did not care for Lopez...but AA is not a second guess...I'm not sure how now or at draft time how you justify that pick...there is no European team that I'm aware of (and I do try to follow them for foreign picks) that has a first round NBA talent sitting on the bench getting no burn...and he was basically sitting on the bench getting no burn....

[Toocool]

Regarding DJ over Lopez, I thought it was a great pick. We lacked a decent backup PG, and DJ had a very strong college career. I think he will make it big in the NBA, it'll just take time for him to settle. He's had a year already, and we know he's able to take over a game. All we need to do is have him take over the game on a consistent basis.

As for AA, I still have hopes for him. Not as much as I use to, but I'm hoping through practise that hes constantly working harder to break into the rotation and get minutes.