DJ in Browns dog house

[dav7z]

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/bobcats/story/1052631.html



Brown hasn't seemed happy all year with DJ . Now DJ is not producing and has made his way to Browns Dog house . If the team don,t turn things around im sure DJ will be a piece Brown is ready to move

[ohara831]

Hey LB, you drafted him. Over Lopez I might add. You fix it.

[spectre]

How did you relate that article to DJ? I took Bonnell's mentioning DJ as sort of a coincidence, not necessarily the brunt of LB's anger right now.

The starters laid the egg in the 3rd the other night, not the bench guys. I'll certainly agree that the bench hasn't stepped up...but Wednesday night wasn't their fault.

I didn't see the damn game, but since Gordon & CV are the guys who smoked us wouldn't the logical choices for criticism be Boris & Flip?

[dav7z]

Brown said in the artical . Hes not getting to his spots, Hes not doing a good job on the pick and role . He can't get his shot off because of the pick and role,


Rick saying hes like 3 for what ever in his last 30+ mins of play . And the last three games he hasn't produced over 6 points . One game producing nothing.
Im not taking a shot at DJ . Im just saying i don't think Brown isn't happy with DJ right now.

I agree with you about Boris and the starters . But Brown seems to think DJ is not playing like he could.

[BRNC]

I think at this point...taking into consideration how some of the talent we've traded has produced for other teams...LB really needs to start looking at himself as a major part of the problem...and figure out how to be part of the solution...it is not all on the players...

LB assembled and drafted most of these players...a guy that de has consistently had in his "doghouse" (Nazzy) is one of the few players producing...this is not all on the players in my book...but I do see some chemistry issues and I think those get worse (with every lose) not better...and I put that on LB also...

[spectre]

I think at this point...taking into consideration how some of the talent we've traded has produced for other teams...LB really needs to start looking at himself as a major part of the problem...and figure out how to be part of the solution...it is not all on the players...

LB assembled and drafted most of these players...a guy that de has consistently had in his "doghouse" (Nazzy) is one of the few players producing...this is not all on the players in my book...but I do see some chemistry issues and I think those get worse (with every lose) not better...and I put that on LB also...

To be fair, LB was pretty restricted by what he had when he came here and his primary goal was to get this team into the playoffs. Based off of our initial play last season that wasn't going to happen.

For example: he traded for Vlad, but wasn't that due to any return being limited when Ammo...who'd just had his option picked up...is your primary trade bait?

It certainly looked like both he and Jordan can be blamed for Gana however...but again no one wanted Hammer's contract and it wasn't working out for him.

[BRNC]

spectre...my point is LB was instrumental in those trades for those players...no one wanted Hammers contract but I'll tell you this...I'd rather have his (with him riding the bench) than Diops (with him riding the bench)...that cut about 3 million we would have had this summer to sign a "real" player...and Vlad has always been a shooter...how exactly did that fit with LBs philosophy...?

I'm not saying these are bad guys...nor am I saying Raja and Diaw are "bad guys"...but of the four Raja is the only one that fits as an LB player...so why the heck were these trades even made? We've gotten older with two more (the best I can say) mediocre contracts...and a 6-7 guy (and I know this in my opinion) that makes nine million...and you actually think we are any closer...

We may get a "short term" playoff out of this...my point is we could have done better...and I mean since LB has been here...our last draft was solid (as solid as I thought it could be)...and we could have had some cap money to sign a player (or trade for when other teams wanted to dump) that saw themselves as the "piece" wanting to be here...instead we have a team that really does not "fit" together...and yes...I blame LB for that...

We needed to hire a GM that can actually make GM decisions...and maybe that is happening...I don't know...I felt good about our last draft and I still feel good about...and for the GM...I'll know after we make our first (and I predict only) trade this year as to how the team is going to go...

This is the chat link if you want to read it...we were mentioned twice and neither is flattering...

http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/chat/_/id/29342



[Quote]Have you noticed how great The Suns bench is so far? I mean, this and the rebounding is ALL we Suns fans wanted in the SSOL days.
John Hollinger (12:40 PM)




To expand on this last point, Jared Dudley was HUGE in the Philly game. Enormous. Basically won the game for them. His inclusion as a throw-in to the Richardson deal is yet another reason why the Bobcats need to clean house.[Quote]


This is a quote from an answer Hollinger had on his blog from a Suns fan...my point is everyone in our organization has to be held accountable...and that includes LB...I do not want this to appear as a focus on him...it is not...but everyone Players, FO, and Coaches are responsible for this...not just the players....

[spectre]

Morrison couldn't fill his role and we needed someone like him. What other deal could we have made for a shooter when Ammo was the prime trade bait?

Boris was brought in because we had NO starting PF and we needed more passing in the starting group. I know you don't care for him, but he fit the criteria for what we needed.

Thank May for that one.

I don't think anyone would argue that we've gotten less than full value in every trade this franchise has made...but there was definitely a need for the skill sets.

[BRNC]

spectre...my like/dislike of Diaw means nothing here...value does...and my dislike of Diaw for our team is I knew he was not an LB type player and that it would not work...Diaw has flaws that LB can't stand period...Diaw is a much more productive player in an up-tempo offense that does not depend on defense...he has many positives but my gripe with him (always has been always will be until it changes) is he does not take conditioning seriously, he takes games off, and he thinks he is a starter...he is a better 6-7 guy not a starter...and that is my opinion...

What I think has happened is this:

He played pretty good when he got here because he had something to prove...but he also started talking "smack" to AA about playing time and that has not helped AAs attitude...he also went to the French national team not in shape and got injured...and wants to play "his style" (up-tempo), and continues to make (attempt) to make passes he should not attempt and all these things have pissed off LB...

I've been watching the body language of other players (Felts and Crash in particular) towards Diaw and it is not good...I think Ray and Crash but into what LB wants to do...I can't say the same for Diaw...I'm not in any way saying Diaw is a horrible player because he has his positives...but he is not a fit with LB...and I will add that someone (MJ and or Higgins) have told LB very clearly that if you want him out of here only say nice things about him...and to LBs credit he is...

LB even went to the trouble of looking at film to get Diaw more involved with the offense but Diaw is not "the man" and has never been and never will be...he is not a crunch time player...that is not what he is and I think it is unfair to try and "force him to be what he is not"...to be fair to him he needs to be with an up-tempo offense...

My prediction...the first trade (and only one I hope) will be Diaw and AA packaged...but if that is indeed what happens we'd better get a starter back because Diaw does have value...just not with LB...

As for Ammo...I was not sorry to see him go but felt we could have picked up a "shooter" for less than Vlads contract...

and spectre...I've been playing with "trades" for days and this is the best I can come up with...it will never happen but what the heck...

http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=5280833

Diaw and AA to GSW....DJ to the Kings...
Jackson to the Kings....Randolf to us...Kmart to us...and Rodririguez to us...

It works but will never happen...I'm trying to use players that each team (at least one player) has expressed some interest about...all othe scenarios (using teams Jackson has an expressed interest in) really gives us nothing in return...

[spectre]

Are we discussing current worth or the reasons for why we made the trades? I can't really argue their current worth very much because I didn't see the last game (and why I haven't been posting much on it...kind of hard to critique going by the gamecast).

I have a big suspicion though that if Raja had played it wouldn't have happened like that. Sure he's getting old, but lots don't realize what his leadership and vet presence really means to this team. One big thing I think he keeps the rest of the guys focused on their jobs.

Anyway, we needed a PF and we needed more passing in the starting group. Two PGs only work well in certain situations. If you have tried to come up with trade scenarios you know how hard it is to find something that can work financially and where both teams would do the deal. On top of that Richardson was VERY well paid.

In Boris we got all points covered and he's young enough where it's possbile he could be "coached up".

If you've noticed LB thinks very highly of his own ability to make players better thru coaching. Sometimes he can, others he can't. Boris may well end up being one of the latter, but given what we were offering and our distinct needs I don't know that we could have found a better target.

Should we have gotten "more"? Hell yes. Duds should never have been included.

Ammo...I don't think we could have man, esp. after the 5+ million extension. That meant someone had to take his worthless ass on for about 10 million bucks...and no one's doing that AND giving up a better talent (no matter how minor) without some bigger negative being thrown in.

[BRNC]

I agree on Ammo...but I think we'd have been better off cutting him and signing a cheaper option (for 1 year) than Vlad...

LB and coaching up...I think LB has hit the wall in that regard...and that is why I think we need a real GM that can actually evaluate talent across the board...yes we were screwed in the deal and I did not like it...but I'm more concerned with not screwing it up again...

Raja...I would not trade him...rather have him here for your reasons and to work with Hendo...as a matter of fact there are only four guys on our team now I would not trade...Crash, Raja, Hendo, and UPS...if we could get value I'd trade anyone else but not any of the four...reasons vary but that is the core (from what we have) that I'd keep...

[spectre]

I agree on Ammo...but I think we'd have been better off cutting him and signing a cheaper option (for 1 year) than Vlad...

LB and coaching up...I think LB has hit the wall in that regard...and that is why I think we need a real GM that can actually evaluate talent across the board...yes we were screwed in the deal and I did not like it...but I'm more concerned with not screwing it up again...

Raja...I would not trade him...rather have him here for your reasons and to work with Hendo...as a matter of fact there are only four guys on our team now I would not trade...Crash, Raja, Hendo, and UPS...if we could get value I'd trade anyone else but not any of the four...reasons vary but that is the core (from what we have) that I'd keep...

On Ammo...you mean not give him the extension? Oh yes! Totally agreed...that was throwing good money after bad. There was nothing in his 1st year to show he would ever be worth that kind of money.

If you mean cut him after the extension...eh. Right now that doesn't look so bad, but he'd still be signed through this season (he wouldn't have taken a cut...he's going to need every dollar!) which would have severely limited us in who we could have picked up.

I wonder if Raja would be happy as mentor to a total rebuild? He's never won a ring has he? Hell, he wanted an extension from us this summer, so maybe that's not a huge thing to him?

I'd say no one is immune from the trading block...but dammit I'd want some legit value for the rooks, DJ & Crash. No more of this overpaying crap.

First and foremost get a real PG. Trade both of ours if we have to. That would eliminate the need for Boris.

[BRNC]

spectre...I was not clear...I would not have extended Ammo and picked up a "shooter" with the money and saved money...check the trade on the first page of this thread and give me your thoughts...as for our PG problem...my trade takes care of some of it...I think Ray would be better for it if we could indeed get KMart...but long term...we should have drafted Lopez (if trading EO50 for a PF) or J. Thompson (if keeping EO50), and either Hill or Chalmers from the DJ draft...then used our pick (from the Hendo draft) to get the best available PG...we did not do that...now...

Buy a first next year and draft the best available PG if we can indeed make "my trade" or something very similar...if no trade we still need a PG, PF, and C...long way to go IMO..."my trade" or something very similar is our only hope this year...but we need a FO not afraid to pull it off and willing to wait for the 2 months that it will take for KMart to come back...but now (IMO) is the only time we'd have a chance to get him...and G. Petrie wants DJ and knows he could use Jackson on a one for one and get assets back for him...Nellie would get two new "toys" and that is the only way we get Randolf...it would work and help us long term as well as short term when KMart is healed...

[spectre]

I just don't think GSW will give up Anthony Randolph...not even to get rid of Jackson. I like the idea of Martin though. Thing is, would LB and the FO be willing to wave the white flag like you and a lot of others are asking? I have my doubts. I think they're desperate to sell some seats and are determined to get into the playoffs.

We've made multiple mistakes, but I'm not a guy who dwells on the past...what's done is done. My blood pressure just can't take it.

Everyone should just step back for a second and realize it's really not that bad. We have major salary coming off in the summer of 2011 and if needs be we can re-tool then. Let Larry try and get us into the playoffs for the next 2 seasons...but under no circumstances allow him to take on any more long term salary. Get rid of that pick commitment; let's not run the risk of blowing it up, making even worse moves and then give Minny a top lotto pick.

For stretches it probably won't be pretty, but given the hand we're dealt I think that's the best plan.

[BRNC]

...and I agree against the "blow up the team plan"...if we can't make a trade that the fans see a real "light at the end of the tunnel" trade...as in getting KMart...I'm all for standing with what we have...like it or not...but bringing in more BS contracts...no way under any circumstances...not at all...

[TOOT DADDY]

Both of you guys have very valid points only thing I can say is in the article Brown mentioned DJ by name but he said point guards meaning both.(How can a player be productive in 30 minutes in three games with half of them in garbage time?) Through all the trades last year this team ends up with only one LB type player and that is Bell and he has a hand in those decisions. LB's in game subs are questionable again this year taking players out when they are in a groove. I don't claim to know everything but I do know this is the most boring team to watch in the league right now and that is bad for business how long do you think BJ will let this go on before cutting heads starting with FO on to LB. How in the hell is Jordan sighted at one away game(New Jeresy) and then the next time we see him he is at the cavs game showing man love for Lebron and Wade. What a fu#king joke of a owner.

[Weezy21]

http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=5280833


doubt the kings would give up kmart, although getting dj AND stephen jackson isnt that bad of a trade off

also, like somebody mentioned before, doubt golden state would give up randolph...maybe if we offered a 1st rounder

[BRNC]

wheezy...I know it is a "stretch" trade...and I could waste time justifying it but it would be a waste of time...I know it will not happen but it is the best case scenario if we were the "third" team helping move Jackson...

I stand with spectre on the "no more crap contracts" firmly...and as brought up before you...LB had his hand in all these deals...so if we can't make a trade that clearly makes us better...he has to play this hand!

[Marvel]

spectre...my like/dislike of Diaw means nothing here...value does...and my dislike of Diaw for our team is I knew he was not an LB type player and that it would not work...Diaw has flaws that LB can't stand period...Diaw is a much more productive player in an up-tempo offense that does not depend on defense...he has many positives but my gripe with him (always has been always will be until it changes) is he does not take conditioning seriously, he takes games off, and he thinks he is a starter...he is a better 6-7 guy not a starter...and that is my opinion...

What I think has happened is this:

He played pretty good when he got here because he had something to prove...but he also started talking "smack" to AA about playing time and that has not helped AAs attitude...he also went to the French national team not in shape and got injured...and wants to play "his style" (up-tempo), and continues to make (attempt) to make passes he should not attempt and all these things have pissed off LB...

I've been watching the body language of other players (Felts and Crash in particular) towards Diaw and it is not good...I think Ray and Crash but into what LB wants to do...I can't say the same for Diaw...I'm not in any way saying Diaw is a horrible player because he has his positives...but he is not a fit with LB...and I will add that someone (MJ and or Higgins) have told LB very clearly that if you want him out of here only say nice things about him...and to LBs credit he is...

LB even went to the trouble of looking at film to get Diaw more involved with the offense but Diaw is not "the man" and has never been and never will be...he is not a crunch time player...that is not what he is and I think it is unfair to try and "force him to be what he is not"...to be fair to him he needs to be with an up-tempo offense...

My prediction...the first trade (and only one I hope) will be Diaw and AA packaged...but if that is indeed what happens we'd better get a starter back because Diaw does have value...just not with LB...

As for Ammo...I was not sorry to see him go but felt we could have picked up a "shooter" for less than Vlads contract...

and spectre...I've been playing with "trades" for days and this is the best I can come up with...it will never happen but what the heck...

http://www.realgm.com/src_checktrade.php?tradeid=5280833

Diaw and AA to GSW....DJ to the Kings...
Jackson to the Kings....Randolf to us...Kmart to us...and Rodririguez to us...

It works but will never happen...I'm trying to use players that each team (at least one player) has expressed some interest about...all othe scenarios (using teams Jackson has an expressed interest in) really gives us nothing in return...


That's a baaaaaad trade man i like Randolph but not at the expense of DJ and Diaw at this point,Rodriguez.....................how in the hell would he replace DJ and K-Mart he must have an expiring contract....... but still don't like that trade

[TheBeagle]

Great dialogue, BRNC and spectre! +1s around!

To allude to the thread heading, it's no secret that Larry has been in my doghouse this season. He pronounces these tenants of "Playing the Right Way" to the point that the marketing wing of the franchise has adopted it to sell seats, and sadly, both are failing. Of the qualities of "Playing the Right Way", the only one I've seen in action on a regular basis is rebounding. I mean, generally, they have really been hitting the boards. However, playing hard, smart, together and defending has been AWOL from the season debut in Boston through the visit to Detroit (excepting the Hawks game, which was more of a result of a team finishing up a long, westcoast roadie, then the other team's excellence).

I don't know what the hell happened, but it seems that since Raja's injury against Miami late last season, the "Playing the Right Way" Bobcats that we fell in love with all over again have turned into some hideous monster that is, at most times, equally disjointed as the Sam Vincent version, yet, sadly, less fun to watch (howdy, JRich, how's it going out there in PHX? you too, JD...) I don't know what the percentage of blame is, 50/50, 60/40, whatever, but Larry has just brought as weak of an effort in his job as the majority of HIS players have this year. Yes, in the NBA, it's a player's league, where the coach is more figurehead and rotation manager than tactician, but there are those few that actually coach and teach, and we have one of the few. I mean, it's his damn calling card: Larry isn't hired for his late-game management or his ability to co-exist harmoniously with players, he is sought out for his teaching skills, and his ability to mold players (sometimes, maybe oftentimes kicking and screaming) into something better than they thought they could be. Succinctly, I haven't seen it. I do think he's done wonders for Gerald, but on the other hand, I think he's ruined his jumper by instilling in him to drive or dish only. He was never a light's out shooter, but through the Vincent years, he was at least hovering in the 40s with his jump shooting percentage as opposed to the remarkably poor state he's been in under Larry. He used to have a jumper that would at least require an obligatory weak close out, but now, he regularly gets a 5ft window and CLANG is the result.

As for the acquisiton of talent: I think only Diop was a horrific move just because of his contract vs. Matty's. This was the one trade I could never figure out when it was made, and it looks like I'll never get it. The Vlade trade was okay with me at the time because of the misery of seeing Ammo's misery at being here and taking the floor. In hindsight, however, it would've been better just to buy his contract out and be done with him and not acquire an enflated contract in exchange. For some reason, some people have a boner for Shannon Brown (likely because he plays for the Lakers and won a ring), but he's the same player as he was here (just surrounded by infinitely better talent), and that's no big loss to me.

I think he's also had two good drafts, it's just that now the '08 looks bad because we have since traded Mek making Lopez a much more attractive pick than DJ. I also think Lexy has a good chance to have a long career in the league, but probably not here in this slower system...he needs to run and it just won't happen with Larry in charge, which, once again, shows why, in retrospect, the '08 draft was fubar'ed by Larry. This year, I desperately wanted Jrue over 12, but he's a more than serviceable pick and makes sense, however limited he will likely always be on the offensive end; Derrick, well, that was a special pick and will be regarded as such years down the line (that is, if he isn't shipped out inexplicably!).

We'll see what happens, but at this point, this doesn't resemble a Larry Brown team in any fashion except the exceptional rebounding. The players should be very much held accountable, no doubt about it, but as a teacher, and builder of this particular team, Larry should bear quite a bit of responsibility for this team's lackluster performances in terms of preparation, questionable rotations, and enigmatic game management.

ILBIT was a grat rallying cry last year, but it just rings so hollow now.....

[davcbow]

Yeah all this is looking pretty gloomy.....:cool:

[nfcchamp2004]

Great dialogue, BRNC and spectre! +1s around!

To allude to the thread heading, it's no secret that Larry has been in my doghouse this season. He pronounces these tenants of "Playing the Right Way" to the point that the marketing wing of the franchise has adopted it to sell seats, and sadly, both are failing. Of the qualities of "Playing the Right Way", the only one I've seen in action on a regular basis is rebounding. I mean, generally, they have really been hitting the boards. However, playing hard, smart, together and defending has been AWOL from the season debut in Boston through the visit to Detroit (excepting the Hawks game, which was more of a result of a team finishing up a long, westcoast roadie, then the other team's excellence).

I don't know what the hell happened, but it seems that since Raja's injury against Miami late last season, the "Playing the Right Way" Bobcats that we fell in love with all over again have turned into some hideous monster that is, at most times, equally disjointed as the Sam Vincent version, yet, sadly, less fun to watch (howdy, JRich, how's it going out there in PHX? you too, JD...) I don't know what the percentage of blame is, 50/50, 60/40, whatever, but Larry has just brought as weak of an effort in his job as the majority of HIS players have this year. Yes, in the NBA, it's a player's league, where the coach is more figurehead and rotation manager than tactician, but there are those few that actually coach and teach, and we have one of the few. I mean, it's his damn calling card: Larry isn't hired for his late-game management or his ability to co-exist harmoniously with players, he is sought out for his teaching skills, and his ability to mold players (sometimes, maybe oftentimes kicking and screaming) into something better than they thought they could be. Succinctly, I haven't seen it. I do think he's done wonders for Gerald, but on the other hand, I think he's ruined his jumper by instilling in him to drive or dish only. He was never a light's out shooter, but through the Vincent years, he was at least hovering in the 40s with his jump shooting percentage as opposed to the remarkably poor state he's been in under Larry. He used to have a jumper that would at least require an obligatory weak close out, but now, he regularly gets a 5ft window and CLANG is the result.

As for the acquisiton of talent: I think only Diop was a horrific move just because of his contract vs. Matty's. This was the one trade I could never figure out when it was made, and it looks like I'll never get it. The Vlade trade was okay with me at the time because of the misery of seeing Ammo's misery at being here and taking the floor. In hindsight, however, it would've been better just to buy his contract out and be done with him and not acquire an enflated contract in exchange. For some reason, some people have a boner for Shannon Brown (likely because he plays for the Lakers and won a ring), but he's the same player as he was here (just surrounded by infinitely better talent), and that's no big loss to me.

I think he's also had two good drafts, it's just that now the '08 looks bad because we have since traded Mek making Lopez a much more attractive pick than DJ. I also think Lexy has a good chance to have a long career in the league, but probably not here in this slower system...he needs to run and it just won't happen with Larry in charge, which, once again, shows why, in retrospect, the '08 draft was fubar'ed by Larry. This year, I desperately wanted Jrue over 12, but he's a more than serviceable pick and makes sense, however limited he will likely always be on the offensive end; Derrick, well, that was a special pick and will be regarded as such years down the line (that is, if he isn't shipped out inexplicably!).

We'll see what happens, but at this point, this doesn't resemble a Larry Brown team in any fashion except the exceptional rebounding. The players should be very much held accountable, no doubt about it, but as a teacher, and builder of this particular team, Larry should bear quite a bit of responsibility for this team's lackluster performances in terms of preparation, questionable rotations, and enigmatic game management.

ILBIT was a grat rallying cry last year, but it just rings so hollow now.....

Sad but your so true...I remember how exciting it was to be a bobcats fan after the lakers home game and the celtics game (even though we lost) and even the media thought we had a good shot at the playoffs.

Now this. Totally agree on the Lopez/DJ thing. In hindsight it looks bad but there was no way he and mek could play together. And sadly I was on board with the Vladdy and Ammo deal because ILBIT.

Oh the pain!

[spectre]

We got a little off subject, but here's the post Detroit thread by QCH:

http://www.queencityhoops.com/GameRecap111109.php


And there is another problem worth mentioning and that's DJ Augustin. He hasn't scored more than four points in his last three games and got an extremely quick hook in the 2nd quarter when he missed a rolling Derrick Brown and forced up a shot instead. Larry Brown took him out immediately and he didn't see the light of day until late in the third when Charlotte was down by 25.

It's clear he's not certain how to play point guard for Larry Brown yet and his confidence has taken a hit. Some how he and Larry are going to have to work this out because he is the one Bobcat that can really help ease their offensive woes.

Maybe Dav was right.

I've been thinking more and more that LB isn't really the coach for DJ. The half court slow down doesn't play to his strengths at all other than he can hit a spot up 3 pointer (normally). Plus he seems like he's scared to screw up...hence he plays too conservatively.

[TOOT DADDY]

We got a little off subject, but here's the post Detroit thread by QCH:

http://www.queencityhoops.com/GameRecap111109.php



Maybe Dav was right.

I've been thinking more and more that LB isn't really the coach for DJ. The half court slow down doesn't play to his strengths at all other than he can hit a spot up 3 pointer (normally). Plus he seems like he's scared to screw up...hence he plays too conservatively.
Spectre I have only been screaming this is not the system for D.J. since last year. It's not the system for TC, Diaw, Henderson, GW etc. I would like to see D.J. traded to a team like Sacremento I can see LB has ruined his confidence to the point he just swings the ball so he won't get yelled down. We'll see what happens tonight hopefully this can be competitive and make the game worth watching these blowouts are getting old. At what point do you say the coach has lost his team? I say when he starts constantly questioning effort and that is presently the case. If we know this system doesn't fit most of the players I would have to think they feel the same way.

[BRNC]

DJ and LB need to get on the same page but the larger problem with LB has always been an inability to work through mistakes with young players...LB is a veteran player coach who even begins to rub them after time...and I'm confused as to why anyone on the board would be surprised that these things are happening?

Another telling moment for me (last year before Hammer was traded)...I think it was a Mavs player, but I really don't remember the team, making the observation about Hammer no longer having confidence, paraphrase..."the guy use to be able to shoot...what has LB done to him..." I do not on any level want to imply or make Matt more than he was...but before LB he was a pretty good shooter...and DJ was last year so what happened...? I want to be clear with this...just because a coach...any coach wants you to improve your all-around game does not give you an excuse to stop doing what you are good at doing.."what got you to the dance"...Matt let it get to him and that was his issue...is DJ doing the same? I don't know...but it is also on LB not to let that happen with any player...because Matt, DJ, and even Vlade (who has always been a shooter) have all "contracted" what ever it is...LB has the right to expect his players to be well-rounded players...he also has an obligation to play to their strengths...it is the later where I feel he has fallen down miserably with these players...

I refuse to put this all on LB...players are accountable for what they do on the floor...it is called performance...and coaches are accountable for the product they put on the floor...that's called accountability...

I can't tell you why our guys seem petrified at the thought of making a mistake...they are the only ones that can do that...but to their credit Ray and Crash continue to try and do the job...Crash is smart enough to know if it will not fall I'll do the other work...problem is we have no one it is really falling for...is it a mental thing between LB and the players...or is it just a mental thing for the players? I think it would be an oversimplification to say it is one or the other...expectations (Coach, players, fans, and the FO) all come into play there so I think they all play a part...why the fans you might ask...

We need to score and bring in a guy (Flip) to do that off the bench...first time he is not a hero we have a thread started in his honor..."Flip is a Ball hog"....Contrary to other reports, I've seen him make passes to teammates (while here and with other teams he played with), but when it is "crunch time", and the coach has drawn up the plays to tie or win a game, what exactly do you expect the "shooter" trying to do just that (tie or win) to do...disappear as too many of our guys do at crunch time?

I did not make the decisions, trades, drafts etc. for this team...none of us did...all we do is try to support this team...and we they play bad BB we should criticize them...the problem I'm having (for myself) with criticizing our team at the moment is it would be too much like kicking a puppy...(makes me ill to think about it)...it is not all LB but he certainly needs to "grow up" and face the fact that this (the players) is what he wanted so suck it up dude and make it better...the players need to have the back bone to meet with him and tell him "the offense sucks and it has got to change"...but the "cleaning house crap" from "we" the fans needs to end...we got rid of "bad contracts" last year and what did that get us...some really bad contracts that really can't be moved without bringing in some really-really bad contracts...

I only hope "our team" plays somewhere between the Atlanta game and the Chicago game...I hate to lose a game but hey...it is the NBA...I just want to know that the team is showing up to compete...not just a couple of guys...I mean really...the Nets (with their effort vs. their injuries) competing better than us...:facepalm:

[DCW]

its only 8 gms into the season im not to worried by whats going on right now all this can be corrected esp the TO. when its late dec early jan than i will be like wtf.

[Ghost Kat]

I've been thinking more and more that LB isn't really the coach for DJ. The half court slow down doesn't play to his strengths at all other than he can hit a spot up 3 pointer (normally). Plus he seems like he's scared to screw up...hence he plays too conservatively.

Sounds like the same thing ya'll said about Felton last year.

[spectre]

Nah...I think everyone pretty much agreed that LB was the best thing that could happen to Felton. To LB shooting isn't the most important thing...which works out well in Felton's case.

[davcbow]

Nah...I think everyone pretty much agreed that LB was the best thing that could happen to Felton. To LB shooting isn't the most important thing...which works out well in Felton's case.

True, but when you build a team of players all defensive minded and cant hit the side of a barn you get what we have. We need a 50/50 team half defensive minded half offensive minded because we need points and we need defense....:cool:

[Marvel]

I was just talking about this today....... LB's system just doesn't fit this team and what we have from DJ to Felton,Crash,Hendo,Diaw and Raja.Raja and Diaw(IQ) are ok but we need them to be better than ok in LB's system.LB was succesful in Philly because of Iverson who was the best iso,one on one player/scorer in the league that year so they had no problem scoring in half court sets.We don't have any player who can score when defenses are set we don't have low post player no one can really score from the wings/perimeter other then Felton on occasion with terrible efficiency.We are a young team with athleticism so we should ideally run more quicken up the pace a little or a lot.That's why Felton is always the one taking shots when we have 3-4 seconds remaining on the shot clock in Philly it would have been Iverson.I just think we don't have the players who can play effectively or efficiently in an LB system.It's hard to teach an old dog new tricks so i don't see LB changing or trying to run our team more.....................,that's why everyone is struggling offensively look at Crash he's definitely a player who would be more efficient in a faster paced system.

[ohara831]

I really wonder if LB even has a plan for this team right now. I can see him just saying to himself " WTF have I gotten into?" This entire team just looks to me like they are clueless. They look nothing like the team that played the 2nd half of last season with fire and passion and tenacity. They just look like a team that was put together a week ago and dont know how to play together.

[BobcatsAllDay]

I really wonder if LB even has a plan for this team right now. I can see him just saying to himself " WTF have I gotten into?" This entire team just looks to me like they are clueless. They look nothing like the team that played the 2nd half of last season with fire and passion and tenacity. They just look like a team that was put together a week ago and dont know how to play together.

The make-up of this team is similiar to many in the NBA. We do not have an inside presence and that does not necessarily have to be a "big". Our best low post player is Boris but he does not command a dbl team or look to score in general so that's really not an option. With that said we try to win from the outside-in every night and that's hard especially when our guards are not the top tier in the league. IMO Denver, Miami, Washington (who is struggling mightly), and Atlanta have the same issue but it's easy to overcome their lack of post scoring because they have great guard play on the regular. If we could acquire a SG that could get 20ppg at @ 47-49% from the field we would make the playoffs but that's about it.

[Marvel]

Hey guys what are the chances of LB geting fired this season,we got some tough games ahead next 3 are on the road and we come back to play Indiana,Toronto and LeBron James...........i mean Cleveland.Theeeen.....we head to Washington to play the Wiz who will have Jamison back by then with Foye.I mean if Scott's been fired LB's time/number could be up next.Theeeen we got Boston.............

[dnbman]

Hey guys what are the chances of LB geting fired this season,we got some tough games ahead next 3 are on the road and we come back to play Indiana,Toronto and LeBron James...........i mean Cleveland.Theeeen.....we head to Washington to play the Wiz who will have Jamison back by then with Foye.I mean if Scott's been fired LB's time/number could be up next.Theeeen we got Boston.............

Scott had much higher expectations than Brown. I'd be very shocked if Brown was fired. Think about it: the whole ad campaign this year was based on HIM, not a player.

[Marvel]

Scott had much higher expectations than Brown. I'd be very shocked if Brown was fired. Think about it: the whole ad campaign this year was based on HIM, not a player.


Meh thought about it.I don't see how that was a problem with other teams firing Reggie Theus,PJ Carlesimo,Marc Iavaroni,Randy Wittman.Don't get me wrong i don't want LB out i'm just saying we got a tough schedule ahead and i don't really see us winning our next game till we play New Jersey if Harris is still out by then.

[BRNC]

I have serious doubts MJ would fire him after begging him to come here...I think it more likely LB walks away of his own accord...