Playoffs vs Building

[jazzer89]

Disclaimer: Everything i say will probably never happen anyways and is just a personal opinion so there is really no need to bash anyone on here. It is a "discussion" board so lets discuss....

My question for the fans here at BCP is

Should we continue our hope for a late playoff seed or trade some players for more young talent?

My opinion is that we need to go after young talent/draft picks with guys like diaw and wallace. Let me break it down for all of you here.

This is how i see our future as it is right now. We struggle to stay near .500 the whole year, we barely make it to the playoffs. Out in the first round, come draft time we give up that draft pick that we owe so that monkey is off our backs. Felton and Bell are gone in the offseason. We maybe bring in some FA's that can contribute but probably dont start. Next season we will probably be starting Augustin and Henderson and then our limited talent begins to develop next season.

With the upcoming draft class as strong as it is i think we need to do the following.

Trades:
First off we dont trade anyone name Augustin, Henderson, Brown, Ajinca.

Second we try and package one of our best players (diaw/wallace) and (vlad/Nazr) for some talent and expiring.
I like this trade http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=ylz4dor
Jazz would have to include their first rounder but because the have the knicks unprotected pick this upcoming draft i dont think they will mind.

From our prospective we get an expiring in Boozer, a guy who could still keep us competitive and not just a push over. We get rid of Nazr and Diaw but only bring back one non expiring contract but its only 4.5 million so its not so bad going into free agency. and if they throw in their first rounder we get a young talent late in the first round but its a deep draft dont forget.

From the Jazz prospective they are getting a better PF in my opinion one who help them more than boozer would. They take on Nazr's contract but b/c they really dont have a back up center i dont think they would mind this guy coming off the bench.


Then with who ever we traded before (wallace/diaw) we package the other with bell and for some young talent and more draft picks.

I know everybody loves Wallace but i think this trade is not out of the realm of possibility http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=yzhqe7p we might have to include a second rounder or two but i think they bite

We get back an expiring in Outlaw, we take a bad contract off their hands, Webster who could play behind our future SG Henderson. and we get Batum who i think will not only be a great player but might also motivate his fellow french man to play better (Ajinca for those who keeping track)

from Portand's perspective they instantly become one of the best teams in the West with a core of Roy, Wallace, Aldridge, and Oden. Wallace would be great for them because he would not be asked to score and he would be able to guard the opponents best man allowing Roy to work less.

we need to build for the future, and if this means giving up Diaw and Wallace to to so im all for it. Look the future as it stands now is bleak, the more young talent we get in the better off we will be. Teams like the Nets, pacers and bulls are already farther ahead on their rebuilding process then we would be.

And if you want to know the main reason these changes need to happen and the fact we are not a good franchise is b/c it all comes back to drafting. the may pick and Morrison pick (both lottery picks) killed this teams future those picks are supposed to help your team but they just pushed us farther back.
with a guy like Larry Brown scouting the talent i feel our future picks will be much better and i think the past 4 picks he has made proves that. (say what you want about Ajinca he is still only like 20 give the guy a break)

If we want a good future changes need to happen, i think the trades above help and i also believe they are reasonably possible.

[Scottley Crue]

I'm certainly not against rebuilding, especially in the fashion you mention here. I think if a consistent scoring SG can be added to the current lineup, they can make some noise. Although it may be a low playoff seed, I do think making the playoffs this season would be a huge thing for this franchise.

However, if it doesn't appear that the type of SG I mentioned can be had, then again, I'd like to go the route you mention. I like the trades because they do bring in a big total of expiring contracts, but those guys will also make the team competive as well.

Between Boozer and Outlaw, that's about what, $17 million off the books at the end of the year as opposed to the $10 millon if noone is traded? Between the extra money and a possibly lower salary cap, that could make the difference in making the 'Cats a player in the free agent bonanza this offseason. Certainly not a major star, but someone who can still make a real impact.

Edit: Am I the only one having problems seeing the deals on ESPN's trade machine lately? Not just this thread, other links lately only show the page that tells you how to use the trade machine.

[jazzer89]

Edit: Am I the only one having problems seeing the deals on ESPN's trade machine lately? Not just this thread, other links lately only show the page that tells you how to use the trade machine.

yeah i dont know why the trades arent working i tried them again but still nothing.

Here's the trade with the Jazz
Jazz trade:
Boozer
C.J. Miles
Jazz 1st rounder

Bobcats trade:
Diaw
Nazr

Here is the trade with Portland
Portland trades:
Batum
Outlaw (this might have to be Steve Blake only b/c the would be depleted at the SF)
Webster

Bobcats trade:
Gerald Wallace and a second rounder (or two)

[davcbow]

My opinion is that we need to go after young talent/draft picks with guys like diaw and wallace. Let me break it down for all of you here.

This is how i see our future as it is right now. We struggle to stay near .500 the whole year, we barely make it to the playoffs. Out in the first round, come draft time we give up that draft pick that we owe so that monkey is off our backs. Felton and Bell are gone in the offseason. We maybe bring in some FA's that can contribute but probably dont start. Next season we will probably be starting Augustin and Henderson and then our limited talent begins to develop next season.

Thats mainly what Ive been saying when I say its time to blow it up because this team as it is will be lucky to get any where near .500 this year...:cool:

[teej]

I think for the fan support issue in the other thread and the money issue, just stick with this team for this year and next, then let TC, Vladi, Nazzy, expire, see what we have in DJ/Hendo/Lexy/UPS, and figure out what LB's doing/who our next coach is, and if we have a new owner. This team hasn't lost to a bad team, and has beat a better team. It can make the playoffs. Just don't let LB acquire any bad contracts (again) and we'll be ok.

[BETCATS]

yeah i dont know why the trades arent working i tried them again but still nothing.

Here's the trade with the Jazz
Jazz trade:
Boozer
C.J. Miles
Jazz 1st rounder

Bobcats trade:
Diaw
Nazr

Here is the trade with Portland
Portland trades:
Batum
Outlaw (this might have to be Steve Blake only b/c the would be depleted at the SF)
Webster

Bobcats trade:
Gerald Wallace and a second rounder (or two)
I like both of those but all team chemistry would be destroyed. Not to say this bunch is the best, but a team with 5 new players is not going to work well mid-season. Had we done this during the off season i would be estatic.

[Fred Williamson]

I like both of those but all team chemistry would be destroyed.

Who cares? Our chemistry right now is non existent.

And if we are planning to make a deal with Portland, we should try to get Rudy Fernandez.

[dnbman]

I want to give the guys we have a couple of months before blowing things up. However, if we haven't made any progress by January, we need to start thinking about blowing things up. The only trouble is that we're not going to be getting much value for anyone outside or Wallace or Diaw. Everyone else we'll almost have to pay to have them taken off our hands. We might be better off riding out some of these contracts than sacrificing picks for other teams to take these contracts off of our hands.

[Toocool]

I want to give the guys we have a couple of months before blowing things up. However, if we haven't made any progress by January, we need to start thinking about blowing things up. The only trouble is that we're not going to be getting much value for anyone outside or Wallace or Diaw. Everyone else we'll almost have to pay to have them taken off our hands. We might be better off riding out some of these contracts than sacrificing picks for other teams to take these contracts off of our hands.

I agree. I reakon riding out these contracts is better than sacrificing future picks as they'll be the future of the Bobcats.

[Keetch]

This team is already a result of blowing up. No worries about continuing the process.

Except.....

Assuming no one's going to give us Amare Stoudemire for Vladimir Radmanovic, No more new contracts that are worse than what you give up.
No more trading away draft picks - Ever.

I am sitting here trying to come up with one player on the roster that we should protect. I'm not coming up with one.

An NBA team is always just one player away from relevance. In the past we've "just" missed Dwight Howard, Chris Paul and Kevin Durant among others. Draft one star and you're back.

Look what Brandon Jennings is doing. All of sudden everyone is wanting to see the Bucks. Hell, I want to see the Bucks.

It's great to win, but otherwise, an NBA team must be entertaining. The Bobcats are managing to excel at doing neither. That is, unless you're someone who is entertained by the sideshows; like REALLY loud drummers and t-shirt tosses.

[dav7z]

This team is already a result of blowing up. No worries about continuing the process.

Except.....

Assuming no one's going to give us Amare Stoudemire for Vladimir Radmanovic, No more new contracts that are worse than what you give up.
No more trading away draft picks - Ever.

I am sitting here trying to come up with one player on the roster that we should protect. I'm not coming up with one.

An NBA team is always just one player away from relevance. In the past we've "just" missed Dwight Howard, Chris Paul and Kevin Durant among others. Draft one star and you're back.

Look what Brandon Jennings is doing. All of sudden everyone is wanting to see the Bucks. Hell, I want to see the Bucks.

It's great to win, but otherwise, an NBA team must be entertaining. The Bobcats are managing to excel at doing neither. That is, unless you're someone who is entertained by the sideshows; like REALLY loud drummers and t-shirt tosses.


T- SHIRTS AND drummers get old . The prosess of blowing up the team started with Mek though management wouldn't addmit it. I kinda wish we put TC on the DNPs list the rest of the season. It might piss him off and he would opt out this year.
Sometime i get the feeling playing Lexy, Henderson , Brown make the team better . And the organization isn't ready for that. We know its just a bad product with no direction.

Im like Keeth , No one is should be safe , Everone should be on the block for the right price.. From Crash to the Ball boys. Im thinking thats in managements mind.And we will be trying to get maxium value right up to the trade deadline.

Some of what i think players values might be .Assuming we don't take trash contracts
DJ great back up point . A lotery pick and a scrub player ,
Wallace could put some one on another level , Possable we could get two first and a high dollar expiring.
Diaw im thinking a role player and a first . Got to be careful about taking bach a big contract hear.
Bells expiring should net a first easy.
Felton i don't know if we can trade . If we can he will net a first easy all so
Nazz might net a expiring and a late first , early 2nd,

Flip expiring
Graham expiring


Henderson , Brown, Lexy , Might be better to let them try to inprove.
Stuck with
Vlad - one year
TC - one year Both has out clause
Diop whos contract we eat for three years

[catsandheels]

im ready to blow this team up too. I just dont think we should start making all our moves just yet. I highly doubt, unless we trade for a star we will make the playoffs. I dont think it will go over easy with Lb if we start trading away all of our players. If we want to do that then i think we will have to get rid of lb. I mean he is a great coach and all i just dont think he would like it. Before we start making trades for picks though i think we need to have an idea of wat kind of draft class we got coming in. I dont want to give up our whole team this year for a weak draft. All we need is a guy that we can build a franchise around. i thought that would be DJ but after these last few games there is no way that is going to happen. We need a big man to shape our franchise around. But the first step i think we need to do to blow this team up is getting a new owner. We are not going to get anything accomplished with BJ making all the calls. I think we should put brown in the front office and hire Byron Scott or somebody that will let us rebuild this team. There is alot of good coaches out of a job right now so it shouldnt be that hard. Hopefully we can trade someone for a top 10 pick and get atleast a brandon roy or Brook Lopez instead of an Adam Morrison or sean mcmay.

So in a couple of Months i think we say Goodbye to everything we know now and blow this team UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BRNC]

LB is not a coach (patience) for young players and at his age why should he be...and I'm very unclear with every other team in the league trying to lose salary so many people think it would be easy to "blow up" this team and actually get value (just picks and no really Shi**ty contracts back) as in high draft picks and expiring contracts...what you are asking for is in no way easy...and we are already losing fan interest...I'm not sure you "perk" up that fan interest with "we're blowing up a team that started from scratch and we promise to get it right this time even though we've already proven we have no clue about how to do it" promise....

Think about it...

[Marvel]

Not a bad idea since we are going backwards from last season.LB should play the rookies more...Hendo,UPS even Alexis, if the starting 5 aren't getting it done why not.

[dnbman]

LB should play the rookies more...Hendo,UPS even Alexis, if the starting 5 aren't getting it done why not.

Yeah, but they're getting it done less, for the most part.

[Keetch]

LB is not a coach (patience) for young players and at his age why should he be...and I'm very unclear with every other team in the league trying to lose salary so many people think it would be easy to "blow up" this team and actually get value (just picks and no really Shi**ty contracts back) as in high draft picks and expiring contracts...what you are asking for is in no way easy...and we are already losing fan interest...I'm not sure you "perk" up that fan interest with "we're blowing up a team that started from scratch and we promise to get it right this time even though we've already proven we have no clue about how to do it" promise....

Think about it...

I'm not suggesting its easy or that I trust this FO to do anything right anymore. I'm just saying I wouldn't be shy about making moves. I'd sure as hell be careful about it though. We can't afford any more mistakes.

As for fan interest; trades can spark fan interest. For instance; I was totally against signing AI before the season, but now that I see LB isn't going to play Gerald Henderson anyway, while Felton, DJ and Flip shoot bricks; hell throw a contract at Memphis, bring in AI; start him, flaunt him, play his ass off for 2 years, lose a gob load of games, sell lots of tee shirts and get a great draft pick or two. At least this year's pick is still protected if we're bad enough. We're definitely bad enough.

In our preseason thread predicting wins; I predicted the Cats would win 35 based on LB's coaching alone (though I didn't believe we'd win that many, I just didn't want to get criticized :P) and mentioned that I'd predict 16 wins with a lesser coach. I was saying 16 kind of tongue-in-cheek, meaning if we had a really bad coach, we could go that low. I wasn't totally serious. I WAS however, and still am, very concerned that this team is really, really bad.

[TheBeagle]

Good thread. If it were possible, I'd take the goal of the playoffs this season over tearing it down now and trying to start from scratch V 3.0, but I just don't think it's possible with this team, healthy or not. A playoff appearance would generate some excitement, plus, like you say, get rid of that bloody albatross that is the owed pick. Plus, and a really, really, really hate to say it, maybe that would get Larry to walk away, which, I really really really hate to say, may be the best thing for the progress of the franchise.

But like I said, I just don't think it's realistically possible. I mean, quite damn honestly, we're the 13th best team in the east. Milwaukee and Indiana are now both better, and are damn fun to watch, while the Cats are spinning wheels.

Blowing a team up, when that team is dreadful, always seems like a good idea, and like Keetch says does draw some excitement, but I don't know if that's what's called for because of the reasons BRNC gives and because of spectre's avatar. I wouldn't mind seeing a single trade involving one or, at most, two players involved, but I don't want to see a replay of last year unless the Cats are somehow on the receiving end of great deals, which happens every time you see:whenpigsfly:. No, for the time being, I say stick with the roster as it is, and maybe Larry can help these guys work through the funk they're all in and find a groove similar to last year's. If not, then we at least have one more lottery protetcted pick, and hell, maybe it'll be top 5 and maybe we can find that star that we desperately need because like Keetch says, an NBA is always just one player away from relevance.....and damn it all, isn't it our turn yet? ;)

[Walt Cronkite]

Playoffs it is!

[jazzer89]

yeah i guess so with this stephen jackson trade