The Official Lets Not Fire Larry Brown and calm down thread

[BETCATS]

I log in this morning and see a "Fire Larry Brown" thread. WTF? Sure he has made mistakes, but only some are his fault:

1. Small Ball- LB tried to use it pre-Jackson to make us score. Chandler is seriously a negative on offense, worse than anything our imaginations could produce. However, Larry tried/the front office tried to bring in a big over the summer. It just so happened nobody wanted to come here. Maybe we can trade for one, i am sure Larry is looking for a solution to the small ball issue.

2. Not playing Nazr enough - Nazr is our only offensivly gifted player above 6'9. Yet he only gets 16 minutes a night? I know Larry doenst like Nazr's playing style, but still, you NEED a scorer or at least somebody who can score as your center. Tyson Chandler and Diop cannot COMBINE to average 15 points a game. If we give Nazr 20 minutes, i think he will score 15 easily. And we need to play Nazr when it counts. He never plays the 4th quarter! We have to deal with Tyson 'no shit' Chandler who seems to have caught "Kwame Brown Hand Disease" and drops every single ball thrown to him. Larry adapts, maybe he will see this maybe he wont. I am not sure, but hope he does eventually play Nazr more.


3. Good/Bad/Ugly trades -
The good: Diaw trade, Jackson trade
The bad: Vlad-Rad trade, Tyson trade
The ugly: Diop trade
For every gem Larry brings us, a turd acompinies it. He trades for players he needs. I am fine with that. Larry then tries to encorportate them into his system, and is succesful for the most part. I could go on all day anaylzing every trade Larry has made, but i wont. I think he is a decent trader, sometimes we get a steal/sometimes we get stuck with crap.

4. Drafting - On the one hand, Larry drafts for Larry. He gets players he know he can win with. Like DJ. He knew he could win with DJ, so that is who we drafted. BUT Larry doesnt try and draft for team needs. We needed a NBA ready big man and a point guard that year, Larry took a NBA ready point guard and a big man who man never be NBA ready. These decisions carry over to today. We still need a NBA ready big man, their were plenty availble in place of DJ. We could have taken Mario Chamblers with the Lexxxy pick. But living in the past is wrong, and to Larry Brown's benifit every rookie he drafts works for him. So i cant really hold that against him.


Why it wont happen: The tarheel alliance alone is enough to stop it. You think Micheal Jordan is going to fire his blue blooded brethern? Ha! I dont think so. Larry pulls just as much weight at UNC as MJ does, and if MJ turns his back on him, trouble in paridise will ensue.

Why it shouldnt happen: What other coach in their right mind would want to come here if a hall of fame coach failed in front of him? I dont see that working. If MJ has hired/fired both one of his personal friends and one of his UNC brothers, where else is their to look from? Why would a outsider (like Van Gundy) want to come here? If the 2 predecessors of the job had personal relationships with MJ and still got axed rather quickly, does that look like a stable enviorment? NO. We need to give LB room, if he doesnt leave on his own (which he most likely will anyway if we dont make the playoffs) no coach in their right mind would want to come here.


It is too early to freak out. We have a long season ahead of us. Plenty of time for a win streak to balance things out. If their is one man for the job, its Larry Brown. He will find the solution. I was one who was in favor of hiring Paul Silas, but since we hired Larry we got the same type of thing Larry brings everwhere: organized madness. But it works, or at least over time it works. Be paicent. Calm down. Larry will do what needs to be done (and if not he will quit on his own!). ILBIT

[BobCatsFanInTx]

I log in this morning and see a "Fire Larry Brown" thread. WTF? Sure he has made mistakes, but only some are his fault:

1. Small Ball- LB tried to use it pre-Jackson to make us score. Chandler is seriously a negative on offense, worse than anything our imaginations could produce. However, Larry tried/the front office tried to bring in a big over the summer. It just so happened nobody wanted to come here. Maybe we can trade for one, i am sure Larry is looking for a solution to the small ball issue.

2. Not playing Nazr enough - Nazr is our only offensivly gifted player above 6'9. Yet he only gets 16 minutes a night? I know Larry doenst like Nazr's playing style, but still, you NEED a scorer or at least somebody who can score as your center. Tyson Chandler and Diop cannot COMBINE to average 15 points a game. If we give Nazr 20 minutes, i think he will score 15 easily. And we need to play Nazr when it counts. He never plays the 4th quarter! We have to deal with Tyson 'no shit' Chandler who seems to have caught "Kwame Brown Hand Disease" and drops every single ball thrown to him. Larry adapts, maybe he will see this maybe he wont. I am not sure, but hope he does eventually play Nazr more.


3. Good/Bad/Ugly trades -
The good: Diaw trade, Jackson trade
The bad: Vlad-Rad trade, Tyson trade
The ugly: Diop trade
For every gem Larry brings us, a turd acompinies it. He trades for players he needs. I am fine with that. Larry then tries to encorportate them into his system, and is succesful for the most part. I could go on all day anaylzing every trade Larry has made, but i wont. I think he is a decent trader, sometimes we get a steal/sometimes we get stuck with crap.

4. Drafting - On the one hand, Larry drafts for Larry. He gets players he know he can win with. Like DJ. He knew he could win with DJ, so that is who we drafted. BUT Larry doesnt try and draft for team needs. We needed a NBA ready big man and a point guard that year, Larry took a NBA ready point guard and a big man who man never be NBA ready. These decisions carry over to today. We still need a NBA ready big man, their were plenty availble in place of DJ. We could have taken Mario Chamblers with the Lexxxy pick. But living in the past is wrong, and to Larry Brown's benifit every rookie he drafts works for him. So i cant really hold that against him.


It is too early to freak out. We have a long season ahead of us. Plenty of time for a win streak to balance things out. If their is one man for the job, its Larry Brown. He will find the solution. I was one who was in favor of hiring Paul Silas, but since we hired Larry we got the same type of thing Larry brings everwhere: organized madness. But it works, or at least over time it works. Be paicent. Calm down. Larry will do what needs to be done. ILBITWell stated!!!

[ammofan]

Fire Larry Brown......unless AI signs here, then we can keep him lol

[ohara831]

When it all starts to unravel before your eyes, and you cannot stop it, the blame game must start. It is just human nature. And this team is not talented enough to go on any big win streak and start to even out its record. It is just going to be ugly. Question is do we : a) simply leave it alone, see where we fall in the Draft, and hope to get a stud to complement what we have, b) do we make trades to get draft picks or c) do we make trades for veteran help to try and fix the problem?

[Toocool]

Well said.
I also believe that if anyone can turn this franchise around, it would be LB. The problem is partly LB, but also its our beloved owner BJ. Get rid of BJ and it would be much easier on LB and MJ to be able to set this team on its tracks. Also, L is using the pieces given to him by Fine Ham Biscuit. Only thing FHB did really was keep G.

[Woodsy23]

When it all starts to unravel before your eyes, and you cannot stop it, the blame game must start. It is just human nature. And this team is not talented enough to go on any big win streak and start to even out its record. It is just going to be ugly. Question is do we : a) simply leave it alone, see where we fall in the Draft, and hope to get a stud to complement what we have, b) do we make trades to get draft picks or c) do we make trades for veteran help to try and fix the problem?

a) dont really think thats an option because if we carry on like this fan numbers will start to decrease and it will just get ugly
b) we're gonna have to trade our best players for draft picks meaning we're gonna suck even more this season and judging by our draft history we suck at picking good talent.
c) Veterans = a short term fix and lets be honest with good veterans we get to 7th or 8th have no draft picks and lose in round one or 2 of the playoffs?

it's a lose lose lose situation :cool: wow this sucks.:facepalm:

[MJ's Caddy]

I dont think that getting rid of Brown is going to solve much. This is not a real attractive place for a coach to come and I dont think we could get anyone better. Plus, its not like hes underachieving with a good tea, you can only polish a turd so much and right now we just dont have the talent to compete. The front office seems like it might finally start to be getting a clue i.e. the Jax trade and maybe they can slowly turn things around and get some talent.

[Chrystos]

Fire Larry Brown......unless AI signs here, then we can keep him lol

No. fire Larry If Avery Johnson wants to coach here.:chairshot:

[ziggy]

For the record, I'm in the "Do not fire LB" camp. At a minimum he deserves to finish out the season, then management can make some kind of decision then.

I agree that there are some things wrong with this team
* Tyson Chandler
* The decline of the point guards
* the lack of minutes for the young guys

But firing the coach mid-season would knock us all the way back down to square one and I'm not ready for that.

my 2cents

[teej]

But firing the coach mid-season would knock us all the way back down to square one and I'm not ready for that.

IMHO, that's where Larry has put us.

Also, we got big names interested last time. Everyone knows Larry has lost it (from what he did in NYK) and that this roster has talent and future manueverability. I'm sure someone good would be willing.

And betcats, MJ wouldn't be damaged image-wise at all, he holds more sway at UNC now than LB ever has.

[LiquidWayno]

Wow, we sure do turn people quickly in the Bobcats nation. Fire Larry Brown? Seriously? Because Bickerstaff and Vincent had set the bar so high before? I'm not saying LB is perfect, but you will never get a coach of his caliber to come here again. We barely missed the playoffs last year, have made plenty of moves to try and get better and just made a brilliant move for S-Jax in the last week. We are playing some crappy basketball, but we haven't lost to any horrible teams yet. I can think of plenty of personnel changes I would like to make around here, but LB is not on that list.

[Woodsy23]

What happened to the AI headline on the main page?:confused:

im still waiting for it to appear again :rolleyes::g:

[Muttley]

Wanting to fire Larry Brown seems a bit... rash. There are a bunch of ways to improve this team, and as Wayno said, I don't think canning Larry's on the top of that list. How about sign AI? We can move DJ and/or Acie for some unused pf on someone's roster if we want. If Ray's not getting any PT, then by the end of December we can trade him to a location of his liking. (It's still up to him at that point, though.) Start AI and bring Flip off the bench. Talentwise, we're not far from having a very good team. The players just need to get their heads on right.

edit: Also, the players should start hitting some goddamn free throws.

[dnbman]

I'm all for level-headedness and rationality, and I don't think we should axe Larry Brown. However, if we haven't made significant process by mid-season, we need to start blowing things up and start over. We have too many big contracts and too many kind-of-talented-but-limited players to tinker too much more. I'd start doing trades somewhat similar to the GS trade, where we send one good player with one bad player/contract in order to obtain whatever we can get without sacrificing draft picks.

I think this team can still be pretty formidable if Chandler turns it around and everybody else plays with confidence. However, right now it just looks bad, and, honestly, there's nobody on the roster that I think we have to keep, though I do love Gerald Wallace.

[Chrystos]

I'm thinking that if we don't make it to the playoffs, He'll be fired. So chill out Gerald Walrus and wait till the end of the year. ^-^

[Ghost Kat]

:hissyfit: Fire LB.......:ranting:

Who said that?? :shrug:

:bang:


:deadbanana:


:violin:

:rip:


You have been warned for your blasphemy

[davcbow]

Me thinks LB's target year is for next season....:cool:

[TheBeagle]

Well, I posted on the "Fire" thread, I'll post here on the "Not Fire" to even it out. To reiterate, yeah, I'm thoroughly pissed with the job he's done thus far, but I don't think it's time to can him. Actually, since the Jack trade, he's started to turn things around. For one, the ineffective DJ/Raymond tandem is a thing of the past, and Flip is at times getting productive minutes at the 1 while both of them are on the pine!!! I mean, really, that's pretty damn outside-the-box thinking, and worthy of Larry's mad genius.

Similarly, Derrick is becoming a fairly integral part of the rotation; a reward for his hard work in practice and the effort he gives when he's on the court. Larry's not a moron; he sees this; he loves this; he's giving Derrick minutes.

No, let's let him put a little more polish on these post-Jack trade Bobcats, and maybe a quality rotation can be discovered when/if Chandler returns (and possibly AI's arrival).

Wins and losses aside, I think the Jack trade his reinvigorated him and it shows in his rotation schemes. We're likely not going anywhere as it is (in terms of the postseason) so let's see if Larry can work some magic with what he has to work with.

[teej]

For one, the ineffective DJ/Raymond tandem is a thing of the past, and Flip is at times getting productive minutes at the 1 while both of them are on the pine!!! I mean, really, that's pretty damn outside-the-box thinking, and worthy of Larry's mad genius.

If that's all it takes, I hereby submit my name for the job. I do that all the time on 2k10.

[BobCatsFanInTx]

I am glad this thread was started. Yes this team struggled a bit early. I have said that is to be expected. Yes Captain Jack was a big boost to the team. That does not mean that with a healthy Raja Bell the team would not have turned things around. Still I think Stephen Jackson is a talented and welcome edition to this edition of the Bobcats. Overall he may be a better fit than was Bell. We should not however forget how well the team played when Diaw and Bell came here last season.

It was easy to jump the gun and start calling for Larry Browns head but I think it was a bit presumptuous. Now that we have a solid go to scorer on the team things should get better. Trade or not this team was bound to turn things around. Less than twenty games in it is a bit ridiculous to call for a coaches head in my opinion. For the most part even when the team was not playing well or hard they were keeping games close.

This team seems to be turning a corner but they have not beaten a quality team from last season other than the Atlanta Hawks. Let us see how we perform against a really good team not coming off a back to back and that team is Cleveland. The Cavaliers are a much better team than the two teams we recently beat.

I say the team will lose close ones to the Cleveland type teams a bit longer till they put it together. The team is close but I don't think they are there yet. Time will tell.

[Ghost Kat]

Last nights game is proof LB needs to use his bench more. The starters can't play 40 plus minutes all season and continue to stay healthy. The rookies and DJ have talent, They need to play!!

[playoffs...PLAYOFFS?]

this is nuts, discussions about firing or not firing LB? i think some people are really losing it.

[Ampsportsduo]

This discussion is absurd. Seriously. Had this team made the playoffs last season would this conversation even be entertained? No. How quickly we forget that this team qas awfully close. Had it not been for that woeful loss against the Wizards where EO and Boris combined to go 0-9 from point blank range in the final minute and the team shot terribly from the free throw line, the last ten games play out dramatically different.

He we are, not a quarter into the seasoon, one game out of the playoffs and the wheels are falling off? NY Giant message boards think we're being ridiculous right now.

[Ghost Kat]

Firing LB does seem a bit extreme, especially now that Capt. Jack is here. He's not a big time pts guy, but he fits so well with who we are already have. He's made Wallace better by taking all the scoring pressure off him. LB's job is safe as long as he uses his bench and stops wearing out the starters.

LB is a good coach and we already have a better record then last year at this time even with the 7 game losing streak. It's not LB fault we turn the ball over 17 times a game. LB isn't the one missing wide open shots.

[playoffs...PLAYOFFS?]

Firing LB does seem a bit extreme, especially now that Capt. Jack is here.

LB's job is safe as long as he uses his bench and stops wearing out the starters

LB's job will always be safe here, no matter what. LB has done a lot by winning games with some great ROLE players


we are demented to think that firing LB would improve our situation, who would want to come here? we should feel lucky we have him.

[spectre]

LB's job will always be safe here, no matter what. LB has done a lot by winning games with some great ROLE players


we are demented to think that firing LB would improve our situation, who would want to come here? we should feel lucky we have him.

Quoted for truth.

+1

[Marvel]

As long as he uses the rookies more because UPS and Hendo are future stars we will be good.He can't keep playing the starters 40 minutes ......

[KT#20]

Sam Vincent had less talent, but his team only won three less games than Brown's. Bickerstaff's was undoubtedly less talented, but his team only won two less. I'm definitely not advocating for a Sam Vincent return, and I'm not even for firing Brown -- in fact, I hope he sticks around for a while -- but his coaching is overrated, IMO. Maybe it's just his bad personnel moves overshadowing his coaching. I don't know. For whatever reason, though, we've been a more talented yet worse offensive team under him than we were under Bickerstaff or Vincent.

EDIT: I guess with Brown, you have to look at what he does once he gets the players that he wants. With that approach, he definitely fairs better. Unfortunately, that shows his inability to adjust with regards to coaching.

[BRNC]

The one telling thing (specifically about coaching) for me has always been this...and I'm paraphrasing an answer posed to Hollinger (one of his chats) from a Timberwolves fan regarding Kurt Rambis trying to implement the triangle offense with the TWs: "It's the one mistake all rookie coaches make...trying to implement a system rather than developing a system to the personnel they have..." It is the one thing LB has always insisted on doing...implementing a defensive structure is fine...but an offense has to be established to utilize the skills and depth of what you have on hand...not an LB strong point...

I've taken no stand in the "Fire or Keep" LB threads because (IMO) he is here until he chooses not to be here so (for me) it is a waste of my time...with that said...I've always thought as fans we should express our pleasure and displeasure regarding our team...it is the thing that keeps us interested even when things are not going as we'd like...

With that said...LB is LB and I can only hope he continues to use (what I think) is the deepest and most talented bench we've ever had...make real use of the offensive athleticism we possess and our team continues with the success they've begun...

[playoffs...PLAYOFFS?]

EDIT: I guess with Brown, you have to look at what he does once he gets the players that he wants. With that approach, he definitely fairs better. Unfortunately, that shows his inability to adjust with regards to coaching.

well, that just means he has a system in place and he wants players that FIT his system

what do you think college coaches do? do you think the just go out and recruit any good basketball player? they recruit players that will fit their system

what makes you think it is any different in the NBA? why should he adapt to the players when he has the influence in the organization to bring in the right players?

this is by far one of the WORST posts i've ever read in these boards

[KT#20]

what do you think college coaches do? do you think the just go out and recruit any good basketball player? they recruit players that will fit their system

LOL. Comparing college to the pros... wow. If you can't see the flaw in this logic, then it's not even worth discussing.


why should he adapt to the players when he has the influence in the organization to bring in the right players?Oh, gee, IDK. Maybe because while he doesn't we're losing games? :facepalm: Sam Vincent -- WITHOUT A DOUBT -- would have won more than 7 games through those first 23 last season. Now THAT is saying something.

Just get off the guy's cock, and you'll see him for what he is -- a very good coach, who has flaws. BTW, if it was such a terrible post, you shouldn't have just picked out the part that I edited in. Although I know why you did. Simply because you can't dispute the rest.

[KT#20]

The one telling thing (specifically about coaching) for me has always been this...and I'm paraphrasing an answer posed to Hollinger (one of his chats) from a Timberwolves fan regarding Kurt Rambis trying to implement the triangle offense with the TWs: "It's the one mistake all rookie coaches make...trying to implement a system rather than developing a system to the personnel they have..." It is the one thing LB has always insisted on doing...implementing a defensive structure is fine...but an offense has to be established to utilize the skills and depth of what you have on hand...not an LB strong point...

Thank you.

[BRNC]

Well...it is not his strength...but with HOF coaches I would suppose they have more FO pull and do not have to be as adaptive...and LB is not particularly adaptive...but even I do not question the fact he is a great (if not the best) teaching coach in the game...and he has more BB knowledge in one of his nail-clippings than I will ever have...he has his limitations as we all (and all coaches) have...

My comfort level with LB is recognizing what he does well and allow someone else to evaluate drafts/ and make trades...

[Marvel]

The only way i see Crash making the All Star team a few things need to happen:
1.We need to be in the top 8 because if we are ahead of the Pacers then he can make it ahead of Granger.
2.He needs to keep up these averages or get even better


....because LeBron and The Truth are pretty much lock ins albeit they don't get injured.So he can make the reserves........I PRAY THAT HE WILL.Our 1st ever All Star just imagine it

[BRNC]

He is due...we are due...I think this team can do it and I look forward to Crash being our first All-Star...

PS...we all need to keep voting for him...

[BobcatsAllDay]

He is due...we are due...I think this team can do it and I look forward to Crash being our first All-Star...

PS...we all need to keep voting for him...

I really don't think there is a need to vote b/c we all know he will not start so his only option is the Eastern Conference coaches selecting him as a reserve. This falls solely on our performance as a team. If we're above .500 near the break he is virtually a lock.

[SWedd523]

This is from an ESPN Dime article, I found it very, very interesting :g::g::g:


It's thus incumbent on Nelson and Ellis to get past their recent head-butting. Of equal interest, as always, is Nelson's coexistence with young forward Anthony Randolph, who would appear to have an opportunity to seize more of a prominent role with Jackson in Charlotte, assuming Nelson is open to it.

[jdub28]

Thank you.

I posted this originally in tonight's game thread

I really like this "play great defense, score enough points" style of play. It reminds me of when Detroit first started coming together earlier this decade.

We need one more tough guy to throw out there with

Felton (one of the strongest, fastest pgs in the league)
Jack (right behind Artest in the stands)
Crash (Lebron, need I say more)
and
Compton Tyson Chandler

Part of the problem for the team since their arrival in the league was they had no identity. Now they are rolling up to 20 games with the #1 defense in the league. I don't think it is an accident that the team suddenly has the same blue collar persona that the Brown 76ers and Pistons had. Felton's Assist/TO ratio is suddenly through the roof, Wallace is allowed to be the stat sheet filler he should be, and Chandler, UPS, and Nazr are all coming around. I think that can be attributed to coaching.

[spectre]

I posted this originally in tonight's game thread

I really like this "play great defense, score enough points" style of play. It reminds me of when Detroit first started coming together earlier this decade.

We need one more tough guy to throw out there with

Felton (one of the strongest, fastest pgs in the league)
Jack (right behind Artest in the stands)
Crash (Lebron, need I say more)
and
Compton Tyson Chandler

Part of the problem for the team since their arrival in the league was they had no identity. Now they are rolling up to 20 games with the #1 defense in the league. I don't think it is an accident that the team suddenly has the same blue collar persona that the Brown 76ers and Pistons had. Felton's Assist/TO ratio is suddenly through the roof, Wallace is allowed to be the stat sheet filler he should be, and Chandler, UPS, and Nazr are all coming around. I think that can be attributed to coaching.

The way we've been switching off screens reminds me exactly of that great defensive Detroit team. We're doing it pretty seamlessly for the most part and thus taking the advantage of the screen away.

It truly is a thing of beauty!

I freaking LOVE great defensive teams!

[BRNC]

spectre...I only love them when they don't put you to sleep...when you have the athletes you need to let them play...and I think as much as his talent has helped (Jax) is also helping up the tempo of the offense...I really like this team now...and being a solid defensive team does not mean you can't be exciting offensively...:biggrin:

[KT#20]

I posted this originally in tonight's game thread

I really like this "play great defense, score enough points" style of play. It reminds me of when Detroit first started coming together earlier this decade.

We need one more tough guy to throw out there with

Felton (one of the strongest, fastest pgs in the league)
Jack (right behind Artest in the stands)
Crash (Lebron, need I say more)
and
Compton Tyson Chandler

Part of the problem for the team since their arrival in the league was they had no identity. Now they are rolling up to 20 games with the #1 defense in the league. I don't think it is an accident that the team suddenly has the same blue collar persona that the Brown 76ers and Pistons had. Felton's Assist/TO ratio is suddenly through the roof, Wallace is allowed to be the stat sheet filler he should be, and Chandler, UPS, and Nazr are all coming around. I think that can be attributed to coaching.

Of course our defense has a TON to do with Larry Brown. I don't disagree at all with him giving this team an identity. But to be fair, a team really needs the talent to form an identity. Maybe Vincent had it, Bickerstaff definitely didn't. Regardless, I think the guy is a helluva coach when it comes to defense. Hollinger doesn't give all five of our starters Honorable Mention for All-Defensive last year if LB wasn't on board. Enough said.

I do, however, take exception to the fact that Nazr has "come around" because of coaching. The only credit I can give LB for Nazr's play is that him [very, very stupidly] playing Gana over Nazr has lit a major fire under Nazr to perform well this season. The rest has just been Nazr doing what he's always been able to do.

Chandler, right now, isn't even playing like he did last season, so I'm not sure how much he's exactly coming around. Nice game against Washington, however. Hope he keeps it up!

I guess with Felton I wonder if his very low turnovers have more to do with not having the ball in his hands as much or if it's because of LB. Remember, he had some high turnover numbers earlier in the year, and last year he was basically the same as he's always been.

I like the Pistons comparison, but I actually disagree that we need to replace Diaw. Diaw gives us another playmaker, and he's about as underrated a defender as you'll see.

[Scottley Crue]

The way we've been switching off screens reminds me exactly of that great defensive Detroit team. We're doing it pretty seamlessly for the most part and thus taking the advantage of the screen away.

It truly is a thing of beauty!

I freaking LOVE great defensive teams!
I like a great defensive team, too. You can control what you do on defense much more than on offense. You can simply have off nights shooting...have good looks and just miss. However, you can be far more effective on the defensive end consistently. I like that...relying on defense will keep you in more games than relying on offense will, I believe.

[BRNC]

Ray still handles the ball...I think he is making better decisions because he has better options...and going into a contract year might have something to do with it also...I've never been big on the "maturity" thing so I'm not going there..as I said...I think it more a combination of the two I stated...more so the former...just better options...

[Ghost Kat]

I guess with Felton I wonder if his very low turnovers have more to do with not having the ball in his hands as much



I was waiting for someone to finally realize this. Capt. Jack runs 50% maybe of the half court offense. This keeps Felton from shooting dumb shots and trying to go Hero

[Scottley Crue]

I was waiting for someone to finally realize this. Capt. Jack runs 50% maybe of the half court offense. This keeps Felton from shooting dumb shots and trying to go Hero
Bingo. Less time with the ball gives Felton less chances to turn it over. I'll give the devil his due, though...he's done well with the "time" allotted to him.

[jdub28]

Of course our defense has a TON to do with Larry Brown. I don't disagree at all with him giving this team an identity. But to be fair, a team really needs the talent to form an identity. Maybe Vincent had it, Bickerstaff definitely didn't. Regardless, I think the guy is a helluva coach when it comes to defense. Hollinger doesn't give all five of our starters Honorable Mention for All-Defensive last year if LB wasn't on board. Enough said.

I do, however, take exception to the fact that Nazr has "come around" because of coaching. The only credit I can give LB for Nazr's play is that him [very, very stupidly] playing Gana over Nazr has lit a major fire under Nazr to perform well this season. The rest has just been Nazr doing what he's always been able to do.

Chandler, right now, isn't even playing like he did last season, so I'm not sure how much he's exactly coming around. Nice game against Washington, however. Hope he keeps it up!

I guess with Felton I wonder if his very low turnovers have more to do with not having the ball in his hands as much or if it's because of LB. Remember, he had some high turnover numbers earlier in the year, and last year he was basically the same as he's always been.

I like the Pistons comparison, but I actually disagree that we need to replace Diaw. Diaw gives us another playmaker, and he's about as underrated a defender as you'll see.

I don't think Diaw should be replaced but they actually need a POWER forward. You know, the type of guys it seems the Rockets have 4 or 5 of.

With Felton, the ball is in his hands less but I much rather see a scorer average 3 or more turnovers than the PG. Hopefully he can find his shot off the ball.

[spectre]

It's not that he's taking the ball out of his hands (Felton still handles it plenty)...it's the fact that Jax commands double teams. This takes the individual defenders attention off their primary guy which then gives him the advantage.

We're also moving the ball well.

It's why everyone is playing better, and the same concept is why we're playing great defense. We're strong defensively at every position and LB has them switching off screens like the old Detroit team...hence no opposing player can really get an advantage as each are covering their own assignments.

Chk out QCH Bobcats vs Wizards Recap (http://www.bobcatsplanet.com/vb/GameRecap112809.php)


Washington shoots just under 40 percent from the field and it was clear why, on every pick and roll Charlotte's rotation was there. For every Wizards guard coming off a down screen a Bobcat was locking and trailing, every jumper had a hand in the face, and for every loose ball there seemed to be a Bobcat going after it or gaining possession.

[BigMike]

Posted on the 21st----

When it all starts to unravel before your eyes, and you cannot stop it, the blame game must start. It is just human nature. And this team is not talented enough to go on any big win streak and start to even out its record. It is just going to be ugly.

Today it is 8 days and 4 wins later....
And we have the winless nets and the (5-11) 76rs in our next week. Meaning there is a real chance of getting back to .500 ball this week.

[chabber]

It's not that he's taking the ball out of his hands (Felton still handles it plenty)...it's the fact that Jax commands double teams. This takes the individual defenders attention off their primary guy which then gives him the advantage.

We're also moving the ball well.

It's why everyone is playing better, and the same concept is why we're playing great defense. We're strong defensively at every position and LB has them switching off screens like the old Detroit team...hence no opposing player can really get an advantage as each are covering their own assignments.

Chk out QCH Bobcats vs Wizards Recap (http://www.bobcatsplanet.com/vb/GameRecap112809.php)

I don't think anyone is trying to knock the improvement Felton has shown but he is playing off the ball more due to Jackson. If Diaw can get back into some kind of groove the offense should run through him when Jackson starts struggling like he did against Clev in the 3rd once they adjusted. We went back to Felton ball controlling a for a good bit of that 4th quarter and we did not look good. To Felton's credit though, he wasn't turning the ball over.

Another thing helping Felton is since the Indiana game we aren't forcing the ball to him or DJ after rebounds or loose balls. Instead it looks like as a team we are making a conscious effort to push the tempo and it's leading to easy buckets. Going back to that Cleveland game Gerald said in the 4th they didn't know if they should push the ball or try to run out the clock and it helped lead to our disjointed offense. Anyway, us pushing the tempo a bit combined with our improvement in steals we have averaged 21 fast break ppg over the last 3. I'm sure it'd be similar if you added the Indiana game but I couldn't find fast break stats for that game. On the year we average 11 fast break ppg.

Anyway my point was that I believe the ball not being in Feltons hands as much is the reason he's been able to play so well when he does have it. He doesn't have the pressure of controlling every possession and is just playing his game and letting it come with the flow more like he did in the 2nd half of last season.

[Ghost Kat]

I don't think anyone is trying to knock the improvement Felton has shown


Nobody except me

[SWedd523]

I think the arrival of Jack has really made Diaw expendable. His biggest benefit was his passing and ability to initiate the offense having not scoring more than 7 points in his previous three games, and now Jack does that better than him and he's taking a huge back seat in our offense. Defensively he's solid, but it's not like he's all world.

I think we should look to move him for a real banger. He certainly has value for his ability to create, but we just don't really need him anymore.

[chabber]

We should always be looking for a nice PF who can score inside and rebound consistently. However I love Diaw's defense and the fact that the offense can run through him when others are struggling. Plus he is still a matchup problem from the perimeter especially with Jackson drawing double teams. To me that makes him pretty valuable.

[WarioVsMooChicken]

If Diaw could come off the bench for us. We'd be a top team

[BobcatsAllDay]

I think the arrival of Jack has really made Diaw expendable. His biggest benefit was his passing and ability to initiate the offense having not scoring more than 7 points in his previous three games, and now Jack does that better than him and he's taking a huge back seat in our offense. Defensively he's solid, but it's not like he's all world.

I think we should look to move him for a real banger. He certainly has value for his ability to create, but we just don't really need him anymore.

I think all Boris needs to do is become more aggressive on offense. That's easier said than done b/c I don't think that's his nature in general. But we can't have 3 facilitators in the starting five someone has to fall back (or step-up for that matter) and become a finisher. I would prefer Boris become a finisher and allow Jack and Felton to create. If he can step up and fill that role then our starters are very solid.

[SWedd523]

I think all Boris needs to do is become more aggressive on offense. That's easier said than done b/c I don't think that's his nature in general. But we can't have 3 facilitators in the starting five someone has to fall back (or step-up for that matter) and become a finisher. I would prefer Boris become a finisher and allow Jack and Felton to create. If he can step up and fill that role then our starters are very solid.
People have been asking him to become more aggressive for his entire career to no avail. He thrives in a system where he is a facilitator, we simply don't need that anymore.

9mil a year for the next two years is a steep price for a guy who isn't needed to fulfill his role anymore.

[BRNC]

When better players are around (as the Suns quickly found out) he is at best a 6-7th guy...but nine million is a lot to pay a 6-7 guy...I'd hoped with Jax coming here he'd light a fire under him...but frankly I still see him passing open shots with 4-5-6 seconds on the shot clock to someone covered and it just reinforces why I don't much (and never have) cared for him...that and always coming to camp in poor shape...and before someone jumps me...the reason he was injured with the French National Team was partly because he came in not in shape...and I really don't see that changing either...

I still have hopes that Jax will light him up...that kinda craps (passing open shots with no time left) just really pisses him off...as it should...and if he gets to Diaw it will only make him a better player...and since LB has not been able to change that aspect it is clear to me it will take his teammates getting on him for it to change...

[spectre]

But I don't necessarily think that Felton has improved. The last four over the previous games...well certainly, but IMO that's not him improving so much as not making him the 1st option.

I don't mean to be talking around any of you guys, as the ball not being in Felton's hand constantly is a part of the "improvement". What is Jax tho? People were saying that we didn't have a chance this season because we needed another scorer. Anyone know Jax's FG%? 41% and 42% for his career. Is he playing like Richardson did and scoring our way to victory? Nope.

He's drawing attention, and before him the only guys that really demanded attention were Crash & Felton, and both those guys are easy to figure out. By drawing that attention Jax becomes the focus of the defense thus allowing Crash, Felton and the others to take advantage of it.

I've always said that Felton, when NOT the 1st option and surrounded by a good lineup who can handle their own assignments is a solid point guard worth the MLE. Before Jax we didn't have that. Now we do.

[spectre]

Boris just needs to get healthy. Adding Jax did help and it would be possible to succeed without him, but LB likes 3 passers in the starting lineup and I think Boris fits in very well. We all want him to be more aggressive just like we all wanted Okafor to be more aggressive and it probably won't ever happen consistently. But when he is on he can be a force in the paint with all his finesse moves.

Tho I think that what we ultimately wanted in Boris but didn't get forced gettting Jax I don't think it necessariliy makes him expendable.

[Toocool]

Jax isn't an efficient scorer. but he's able to almost singlehandedly shift the defenses focus from other players to him. Add his passing ability and he's great for any lineup.

Boris has a mentality where he prefers others to score than him. I know of it because in some ways I have it myself. However, with Boris I believe we add a new dimension in our game. He isn't the best player for PF, but he's solid and can put up nice numbers. He's not expendable, but he's not someone we would actively seek to keep either.

[BRNC]

Diaw is what he has always been...and does not seem inclined to change...as far as trading him...there is a very narrow market (teams) that want his "talent" for the price he is paid...

I think if we get a PF added to the team it will be a package of DJ and AA...but even if you package DJ you're still talking a narrow market (teams) that see him as a "fit"...

The other problem...you bring a PF in that actually has the talent to start and we have to deal with the "attitude" that Boris will bring from being demoted...this is not an easy problem with an easy solution...it is very much a razor blade fraught with peril...

We might be better standing pat at this point and seeing what we can do this coming off-season rather than dealing with potential chemistry issues...or look for more of a "back-up" type PF small deal...but with a small deal who do you trade?

DJ and AA packaged for a back-up type guy only works for me if we get a #1 back in the deal...but even with that we'd still be dealing in a very narrow market...

[Ampsportsduo]

I have a strong suspicion that if Rajon Rondo and Raymond Felton flipped positions coming into the league we'd be having the same discussion.

[BRNC]

...without a doubt...the case for many PGs in the league...easy to be "great" with other quality players around...not so easy without...one addition means so much...shows a much better picture of the talent we already have...:g:

[SWedd523]

I have a strong suspicion that if Rajon Rondo and Raymond Felton flipped positions coming into the league we'd be having the same discussion.
I dunno.... dude damn near averaged a triple double in the playoffs with everybody else hurt. He can't shoot for shit either, but he's a much better passer and actually finishes at the rim, and plays great defense.