Kemba Walker Thread Part 2

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11-16-2012 02:31 PM
Chef

Quote:

Originally Posted by CatNation

I think Kemba could be Stephon Marbury level PG, except with awesome intangibles instead of horrible ones

can't disagree with this comp. i don't see him scoring like steph could though. the vasoline eating craziness really takes away from how good of a scorer he was.
11-16-2012 02:36 PM
Chef

Quote:

Originally Posted by OfficialBobcatsHD

Rose would never be AI...it goes on and on...in the end...your legacy is built upon what you accomplish on the court...Kemba has enough heart to battle with the best of them...And even if he isn't as good? Who is to say that he can't lead them in 3-4 years? As long as the Bobcats manage the draft as well as OKC has...

How well did Westbrook play as a rookie? 15pts...5 assists...3 turnovers...27% from 3...40% Fg
Kemba hasn't even played 82 games yet...Let the guy develop into who he's gonna be...I love the fact that you can predict where he'll be...I'm pretty sure John Wall and Derrick Rose we're very comparable when coming out...Where are the comparisons now?

that is my point. i am trying to let the guy be he who will be. you think i am trying to pigeon hole him already because i am not completely bullish on him. i see more people talking about how sold they are that he is the future after a really hot start and a buzzer beater. to me, that is just as bad as saying i know without a shadow of doubt he is jason terry 2.0.

oh and as far as john wall. i said he wasn't going to be anything close to rose before he started. he never had even close to the same skill-set. frankly, i couldn't believe the draftniks were as high on him as they were.
11-16-2012 03:05 PM
OfficialBobcatsHD

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chef

no if okc won a championship i would say (rightly) durant led okc to a championship and is the 2nd best player in the league and is setting his career up to be an all-timer.

so if AI played with 2001 shaq (best player in the game) he too would have been the 2nd best player on the team and not led his team to a championship but followed shaq to a ring.

rondo was in his second year and was the 4th best player on the team. but he was still a pass first game manager type pg. he worked his way to a starter in his second year.

i have never said kemba would not be a superstar. ginobli and harden are and they come off the bench. i agree with you that it takes more than one dominant all-star to win a championship. that is what i have been arguing the whole time. i reject the notion that you even have to have a good pg to win a ring which is exactly what you illustrated.

my issue with kemba is game management, knowing when to turn it on and off (which is exactly paul is the closer and his ability to shoot which kemba has not shown consistently), getting the ball to his players where they need it to be effective. he is improving but i still am not convinced his best role is not as a heavy minute non-starter.

Oh I'm sorry, In 2001 who was the MVP?
Rondo was "pass-first" because he was not trusted to run the offense...he actually didn't even run the offense...at Kentucky was Rondo the primary ball handler?

I guess we agree on some points and disagree on others...I believe OKC relies on Westbrook to keep them in the games and then Durant comes through...If each player played on their own team and had no other stars surrounding them...I believe Westbrook's team would do better...IMO

If you believe game management is his weakness, then Ginobili and Harden would be bad comparisons...But then again, I've seen what he can do in big games...Bobcats just were never in a position to be close enough for him to close out games...His passing isn't great, but he has great quickness and can get to anywhere he wants to get to...his jumpshot has increased so far (after 7 games)...

but the thing about game management...scouts said the same thing about derrick rose ever since high school all the way until he came to the league...I'm going to wait until he starts losing us game, before I saying his game management is a problem...Something that is also overlooked when it comes to game management is coaching...Hopefully he builds a great relationship with Mike and becomes an extension of the coach...And by closer i meant, he's their primary scorer...Something Kemba can be...
11-16-2012 03:07 PM
Catch 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chef

the mavs jason kidd was very different than the nets jason kidd. by that time, he was a distributor/manager and not a playmaker. that series was all about dirk offensively.

This quote is ludicrous. The Mavs beat the Heat in the 2011 Finals because of defense more so than offense. You loss some standing points on your opinions. Dirk was outscored by Wade. Therefore there's no way that Dirk's offense carried them. Not to mention that you're only making my point about not needing a playmaking PG to win it all. In my previous post I stated that Kidd was the most fitting of the criteria of being a playmaking PG out of the list of modern day PGs to achieve the feat.
11-16-2012 03:09 PM
OfficialBobcatsHD

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chef

that is my point. i am trying to let the guy be he who will be. you think i am trying to pigeon hole him already because i am not completely bullish on him. i see more people talking about how sold they are that he is the future after a really hot start and a buzzer beater. to me, that is just as bad as saying i know without a shadow of doubt he is jason terry 2.0.

oh and as far as john wall. i said he wasn't going to be anything close to rose before he started. he never had even close to the same skill-set. frankly, i couldn't believe the draftniks were as high on him as they were.

So I don't know why we're arguing if we both agree to let the guy develop...It's not hard to see why people feel that way...Does he have a past of being a proven winner? So when people start seeing flashes, you get excited because you might be witnessing the beginning of something great...
11-16-2012 03:12 PM
OfficialBobcatsHD

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catch 22

This quote is ludicrous. The Mavs beat the Heat in the 2011 Finals because of defense more so than offense. You loss some standing points on your opinions. Dirk was outscored by Wade. Therefore there's no way that Dirk's offense carried them. Not to mention that you're only making my point about not needing a playmaking PG to win it all. In my previous post I stated that Kidd was the most fitting of the criteria of being a playmaking PG out of the list of modern day PGs to achieve the feat.

I think there is a misunderstanding between what you guys interpret the word playmaker to mean...
Is Playmaker = Pass-first/distributor (Rondo/Nash)
OR
Is Playmaker = Offensively gifted (Iverson/Rose)
11-16-2012 03:16 PM
Catch 22

Quote:

Originally Posted by OfficialBobcatsHD

I think there is a misunderstanding between what you guys interpret the word playmaker to mean...
Is Playmaker = Pass-first/distributor (Rondo/Nash)
OR
Is Playmaker = Offensively gifted (Iverson/Rose)

Our debate involving "playmaking PGs" revolves around pass-first. It may confuse you if you haven't read it from the first post because he's contradicting himself.
11-16-2012 03:41 PM
Chef

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catch 22

Our debate involving "playmaking PGs" revolves around pass-first. It may confuse you if you haven't read it from the first post because he's contradicting himself.

when have i contradicted myself on anything? this whole thing started when someone posted something about sending apologies to kemba and i said i will wait for my apology for why a game winner was necessary in the first place.

jason kidd's defense had alot less to do with the mavs than dirk on offense. they had to go into a zone to cover for the fact that he could stay in front of a rec league player at this point. miami lost that series because of dirk and to a bigger extent lebron crapping his pants.
11-16-2012 03:49 PM
Chef

Quote:

Originally Posted by OfficialBobcatsHD

So I don't know why we're arguing if we both agree to let the guy develop...It's not hard to see why people feel that way...Does he have a past of being a proven winner? So when people start seeing flashes, you get excited because you might be witnessing the beginning of something great...

i agree so lets stop.

but it is equally as easy to see why people feel he is best suited as a non-starter. yes he has won in the past but the vast majority of his pro career has shown him underwhelming at best. so yes i see why people get excited, i also see why people doubt too.
11-16-2012 03:50 PM
Chef

Quote:

Originally Posted by OfficialBobcatsHD

Oh I'm sorry, In 2001 who was the MVP?
Rondo was "pass-first" because he was not trusted to run the offense...he actually didn't even run the offense...at Kentucky was Rondo the primary ball handler?

I guess we agree on some points and disagree on others...I believe OKC relies on Westbrook to keep them in the games and then Durant comes through...If each player played on their own team and had no other stars surrounding them...I believe Westbrook's team would do better...IMO

If you believe game management is his weakness, then Ginobili and Harden would be bad comparisons...But then again, I've seen what he can do in big games...Bobcats just were never in a position to be close enough for him to close out games...His passing isn't great, but he has great quickness and can get to anywhere he wants to get to...his jumpshot has increased so far (after 7 games)...

but the thing about game management...scouts said the same thing about derrick rose ever since high school all the way until he came to the league...I'm going to wait until he starts losing us game, before I saying his game management is a problem...Something that is also overlooked when it comes to game management is coaching...Hopefully he builds a great relationship with Mike and becomes an extension of the coach...And by closer i meant, he's their primary scorer...Something Kemba can be...

let's not use mvp to determine without a doubt best player that year. malone won one over jordan which was ludicrous.

i don't think ginobili or harden are great game managers, they are scorers. great players but their best asset is gettin buckets. i also think derrick rose has problems with game management sometimes but has gotten much better.

i 100% agree with what you said in the harden/ginobili paragraph aside from the beginning. you highlighted kemba's strengths and weaknesses exactly.

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