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Originally Posted by fan_of_a_fan
that is exactly what i said. our half court offense is every bit as dysfunctional as it was last year. i am not talking about just scoring, yes we have shitty players but it isn't like they are missing good shots. we struggle to get good shots and possessions in the half court.
this is exactly what i am talking about. if the assertion is that kemba will be the man (which i think is being made on this thread by some people) then my response is that we won't a ring. it takes a super special player like AI or derrick rose to even be in the race with that type of offensive structure and history has proven that it doesn't happen very often at all. in other words, as we hashed out that it basically takes at least one historically special player to win a ring as well as at least one other superstar. if the contention is that kemba will be our best player/alpha dog, i contend he is not nor will be that special player. no slight against him at all. i still think he is showing to be a good player.Quote:
Originally Posted by spectre
that being said, i think the argument that he would best be served as an off the bench scoring pg getting 25-30 min per game is still very much a valid point of view. his best skill so far is his one on one scoring ability and his big game mentality. this works really well as a starter if you are AI or derrick rose, but doesn't go so well if you are even slightly not as talented as in steve francis or steph marbury.
i am not saying we need a cp3 type pg (although it would be nice) i am just saying that IF your starting pg is going to be a scoring ball dominant pg like kemba is he has to be really really special for it to work.
I think Kemba's a pretty good passer. He doesn't turn over the ball.
We have a top half offense in the league with a front court rotation of: a 19 year old rookie SF that can't shoot to save his life, an amnestied player we picked up for 2 million, a guy that was rated 30 in NBA 2k11 before we picked him up for a 2018 protected 2nd round pick, a 20 year old African who has trouble catching a basketball, Tyrus, Diop (dont even need to go further with those 2)
Kembas doing as good a job of managing that motley crew offensively as almost anyone in the league could do.
I'll go ahead and bite the bullet and say Kemba will be a superstar and will be one of our leaders...if we put some pieces around him...he'll lead us to the promise land!!!
There's a fine line between being ranked 15th and 30th. How can you state "yes we have shitty players but it isn't like they are missing good shots" and not realize that it take 'NOT SHITTY' players to get positioning and spacing to have the opportunity to score efficiently in a half court setting in the NBA. Contradictions, contradictions, contradictions LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by Chef
Granted I lost interest in the thread awhile back when I realized you and I were kind of going around each other and weren't really debating one thing...but our ultimate #1 option? No way do I think that. If he were that kind of alpha dog I think he would have risen above last year's adversity as most superstars tend to do...they're "special" right out of the gate.
Do you think he HAS to be ball dominant in order to be good and that in turn puts you in the position that he ultimately needs to be in the 6th man role? If so I am in disagreement with you there because he does a LOT of things other than just try and score the ball. He's also gotten better at facilitating because I've seen him get better. He's not "there", but he's certainly not showing the tendencies of a guy that HAS to score in order to make a very positive impact.
I don't think DJ & Kemba are that much alike at all. They both liked to shoot and I think DJ was much farther along in distributing...but the lack of confidence in DJ to make the risky pass along with terrible finishers last year forced him to shoot more. Just like it did Kemba.
Y'know most of the greatest PGs will try and get the team involved first and when it's not working will start to dominate scoring wise. CP3 does it, Nash does it, Magic did it and Isiah did it. Just because a PG can be a dominant scorer doesn't put them in a box in regards to doing the other things.
I do think he's going to come back down to earth a little bit. Thus far we've been very fortunate in regards to our opponents during this win streak and it's going to get a LOT tougher for both him and the team. That's ok though because Dunlap is obviously making these guys better and I have never expected him to work miracles...esp. this early.
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Originally Posted by spectre
I'd love to see him develop into a superstar...anything can happen
Well hell yeah...I think we all would!Quote:
Originally Posted by OfficialBobcatsHD
When I'm saying superstar I'm thinking of Lebron, Magic, MJ, Isiah. Are there any superstars that came out with average numbers their first year or two and then turned into one? All that's coming to me were known quantities when they arrived.
to be a superstar you have to have the skill/ability AND the work ethic !. Kemba has definatley got the work ethic and winner attitude and he's showing signs of great work offensivley and defensivley !.
100% agree with first paragraph.Quote:
Originally Posted by spectre
2nd paragraph: this is where i am reserving judgement. right now i would say we he has to ball dominant to be effective, but he is improving and this is why i want to wait until mid season for my solid opinion. i also see that he is getting better as you mentioned. i am merely trying to represent the counter argument to all those who are really dismissing anybody who doesn't see him as our superstar in the future. i think the contrary point is still very much valid and a judgement can not possibly be made right now.
third paragraph: i think they are similar for all the reasons you mentioned. the big difference is kemba's mentality. where if dj had that mentality with his better court vision/management he would have been a solid pg.
overall, i think we agree. i am just favoring the bench role and you are favoring the starter role but i think we are both not solid on either position.