Kemba Walker Thread Part 2

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Originally Posted by fan_of_a_fan

There's a fine line between being ranked 15th and 30th. How can you state "yes we have shitty players but it isn't like they are missing good shots" and not realize that it take 'NOT SHITTY' players to get positioning and spacing to have the opportunity to score efficiently in a half court setting in the NBA. Contradictions, contradictions, contradictions LOL

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i am more interested in our half court only stats. we are doing fine as a running team but anytime the game slows down we can't score at all. there is no contradiction in what i said. yes our players are not very good but they aren't failing to score because they are missing easy/good shots. in the half court we don't even get good shots. we have very little game management in the half court by both of our pg's. the players are still pro's and can make good shots but our offense does not get them the ball where they need it to be effective. thus, our half court offense is dysfunctional.

the more great nights he has the more and more people will be sold on him, game winners help aswell lol

Chauncey Billups during the Pistons Championship season avg'd 17 pts, 6 ast, 4 Rebs, 1 stl, shot 40% from the floor and took the 2nd most shots on the team behind Rip Hamilton.... If we ever win, I think it will ve with a Pistons type team where we don't have Superstars but, we have a team full of really good players that play well together.

I can see Kemba playing the Chauncey Billups role for us. (it took Chauncey years and multiple teams to figure out how to run an NBA team) I think Kemba is ahead of Billups through 72 games of their careers.

Actually we are built similar to that team but, much younger( and not as good yet)
Billups - Walker
Rip Hamilton - Henderson (Mid range jump shooter that runs off screens to get open)
Prince- MKG (do it all player with lockdown Defensive ability)
Sheed- Mullens (3point shooting big that like to face the basket) (Rasheed was much better with his back to the basket)
Ben Wallace - Bismack- this is the player we all compare Biz to and hope he can become

http://puu.sh/1r0fv

Kemba takes "ankle breaking crossover" a bit too literally...ouch

lol ankle breaker

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Originally Posted by Chef

i am more interested in our half court only stats. we are doing fine as a running team but anytime the game slows down we can't score at all. there is no contradiction in what i said. yes our players are not very good but they aren't failing to score because they are missing easy/good shots. in the half court we don't even get good shots. we have very little game management in the half court by both of our pg's. the players are still pro's and can make good shots but our offense does not get them the ball where they need it to be effective. thus, our half court offense is dysfunctional.

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I thinking you are also putting a lot of blame on our PG's...how much goes to the coaching? Also like I stated earlier a lot game management comes down to experience...Give us Doc Rivers/Tibbs/Pop and I guarantee you we'd run manage the game better...Losing that massive lead is actually a good teaching moment...Every good PG has a good coach that knows how to emphasize that players strengths...Pop puts TP in lots of pick n rolls...Doc wants Rondo to run more, if not the bread and butter is the pick and pop for KG or Bass...There are a multitude of ways to manage a game while utilizing our Kemba's strengths...it's up to the coach put him in a position to succeed...

At the start of the Wolves game, they ran even after buckets...but for some reason, they started slowing down the game and walking the ball up court...The only teams that have good half court offenses have both A) An all star low post threat B) An all star player that can go one on one C) Shooters for the drive and kick as well as the pass back out from the post...

Until we get all of those...Let's worry about playing aggressive and getting better each game and practice...You want to know why our offense isn't as bad as last year? We don't give up as many turnovers as last year...

Being an up tempo team and doing alot of running from baseline to baseline is a way for us to use our althleticism and young legs to cover up our inability to run an effective half court offense....i think with such a young team , so many new faces , a new coach and system ...that being an up tempo offense and doing alot of running is the only way we can be successful at this point...I think with all these young guys and new faces that its going to take more time and for them to develop more chemistry together b4 Dunlap is comfortable enough to begin installing more of his offensive sets ( which are pretty much all half court plays ) ..right now Dunlap is just letting those guys go out and run and just play ball without making it too complicated...once they start getting more confidence in their own games and their ability to play together i think we will start to see a few more plays installed....i will say that i am enjoying the up tempo game right now....its nice to see us run and out hustle other teams and its nice to see us average nearly 100 points a game...you often hear alot of coaches say they plan on letting loose and being a run and gun team ( Silas preached that we would run run run ) but when it comes game time you never see it....so its actually kind of refreshing to actually see us play that style and to increase our scoring per game from 10+ points from last year

Lol first of all Rose is a winner, dunno about AI and I know all of you are going to say "oh well AI made it to the finals one year". AI only cared about himself dude never got along with ANY of the coaches he EVER had, Rose is a honorable player which can lead his team and even thought they haven't won yet Rose has a better chance of winning than AI.

Both we're superstar's.. But i'd rather have a superstar who cares more about winning than AI.

Hold up! not to debate, but A.I. was a winner in the NBA. He may have been a selfish winner, but a winner nevertheless. To put it in laymen's terms, he was a winner on the court, but a loser off the court. That's what affected his relationships with coaches. I know you heard his infamous "practice" rant. Rose is almost as impactful of a player as A.I. was, but he has a better attitude towards the game, work ethic, teammates, and coaches that may help him get further along.

I know I'm off topic, but I don't want people to downplay how great A.I. was because he's a thing of the past now

I'm kinda impressed here...we're able to have a civil debate here instead of it degenerating into personal attacks. Goes to show the quality of posters we've got, where people can analyze their thoughts without taking things too personally (for the most part), unlike most other message boards I've seen.

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Originally Posted by Chef

that is exactly what i said. our half court offense is every bit as dysfunctional as it was last year. i am not talking about just scoring, yes we have shitty players but it isn't like they are missing good shots. we struggle to get good shots and possessions in the half court.

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I can't go with you there. Is our halfcourt offense good? No. Was last year atrocious? Hell yeah. Is this year atrocious? Nope.

I think your mind has blocked out how mind-numbingly horrible our offense was last year. I will grant you that it becomes painful at times when they're struggling to get buckets, but last year was so abominable that I actually fast-forwarded through the games until I saw our score change, and then would see how we actually scored.

Both years we did struggle to score in the halfcourt, but I think the difference is last year, Silas told everyone take an open shot when you get one, without any guidance on how to get said open shot. This year, I see the symptoms of an offensive system, but everyone is moving slower because they have to think too much at this point in the season. Its a brand new offense which is going to take time to learn, but I've noticed there is a ton more passing around the perimeter, more movement off the ball, better execution of pick and rolls. Plus, Dunlap doesn't want the players to take any old open shot like Silas, he wants them to recognize their specific kill zones, so that they can make it a point to actually get to their sweet spots and increase their offensive efficiency.

I think once the sets become habit and the guys can react instead of think of what to do, the offense will pick up quite noticeably.

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Originally Posted by spectre

When I'm saying superstar I'm thinking of Lebron, Magic, MJ, Isiah. Are there any superstars that came out with average numbers their first year or two and then turned into one? All that's coming to me were known quantities when they arrived.

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To clarify, are you thinking of superstars as one of a kind, Hall of Fame players, or guys who may not qualify for the Hall, but will make several all-star teams in their career?

If we're including guys on the tier right below Hall of Fame level, here are some promising examples of their first couple seasons:

5 Time All Star Reggie Miller:
10 points, 2.3 rebounds, 1.6 assists, .6 steals, 49% shooting, 22.4 minutes
16 points, 3.9 rebounds, 3.1 assists, 1.3 steals, 48% shooting, 34.3 minutes

6 Time All Star Joe Johnson:
7.5 points, 3.3 rebounds, 2.3 assists, .8 steals, 43% shooting, 25 minutes
9.8 points, 3.2 rebounds, 2.6 assists, .8 steals. 39% shooting, 27.5 minutes

4 Time All Star Tony Parker:
9.2 points, 2.6 rebounds, 4.3 assists, 1.2 steals, 42% shooting, 29.4 minutes
15.5 points, 2.6 rebounds, 5.3 assists, .9 steals, 46% shooting, 33.8 minutes

2 Time All Star Kevin Love:
11.1 points, 9.1 rebounds, 1 assist, .6 blocks, 46% shooting, 25.3 minutes
14 points, 11 rebounds, 2.3 assists, .4 blocks, 45% shooting, 28.6 minutes

Future Star Kemba Walker:
12.1 points, 3.5 rebounds, 4.4 assists, .9 steals, 37% shooting, 27.2 minutes
19 points, 3.7 rebounds, 5.1 assists, 2.9 steals, 43% shooting, 35.9 minutes

So if you're looking for an all time great, then maybe his numbers aren't what you're looking for coming out of the gate. But for these multiple time all-stars, Kemba seems to be progressing on the same trajectory.

I know its not an enticing comparison, but if Kemba turned out to be a Tony Parker type player, would everyone be satisfied? His career high seasons are 22 points, 8 assists, 3.7 rebounds, 1.2 steals. They are both extremely fast guards whose offensive strengths are mid range shots and penetrating the lane, although I think Kemba is much more dynamic, and much shiftier.

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Originally Posted by JGib23

Chauncey Billups during the Pistons Championship season avg'd 17 pts, 6 ast, 4 Rebs, 1 stl, shot 40% from the floor and took the 2nd most shots on the team behind Rip Hamilton.... If we ever win, I think it will ve with a Pistons type team where we don't have Superstars but, we have a team full of really good players that play well together.

I can see Kemba playing the Chauncey Billups role for us. (it took Chauncey years and multiple teams to figure out how to run an NBA team) I think Kemba is ahead of Billups through 72 games of their careers.

Actually we are built similar to that team but, much younger( and not as good yet)
Billups - Walker
Rip Hamilton - Henderson (Mid range jump shooter that runs off screens to get open)
Prince- MKG (do it all player with lockdown Defensive ability)
Sheed- Mullens (3point shooting big that like to face the basket) (Rasheed was much better with his back to the basket)
Ben Wallace - Bismack- this is the player we all compare Biz to and hope he can become

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I was thinking exactly of the Pistons when everyone was debating about superstars. If every position is filled with a borderline all star caliber player, or is extremely skilled in a particular area, I think it proves you can be competitive without a Hall of Famer on the roster.

But in the roster comparison above, every single Pistons player was a much better/consistent deep range shooter than who we have (Big Ben's range = 2 feet, Biz = 1 foot). Our roster is far from the Pistons, but if we have maybe 2-3 guys potentially who could ride that all-star borderline (Kemba, MKG, Mully), and can draft/sign a couple more over the next couple seasons, then why couldn't we try to build a Pistons type roster.