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Originally Posted by JMo

That's very simple math. That's assuming each ticket sale is 100% profit for the bobcats and they have no incremental costs for accomodating each fan. That's also assuming they don't take advantage of any promotions they run (i.e. Buy One Seat get a second seat free) But look we can spin numbers however you want. The bottom line is you don't know how many additional fans a name change will bring in. 1,000 new season ticket holders is a huge over statement IMO. I've seen the BBTB outing your posse put together last year and it wasn't close to that.

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The Bobcats will have fixed cost to sell tickets no matter what the name is, the whole idea behind a name change is to bring "incremental" sales. If the team can't cover selling 1,000 incremental sales without adding any fixed headcount, they are severly understaffed.

It does not matter if they have a promotion like BOGO, if the rebrand cost $3m and they create an incremental $73 per game and get 1,000 people (that otherwise would not have bought season tickets) for 1 season, than the rebrand is paid for. The fact that those people would have free tickets the next season is irrelevant to the ROI because the ROI will have already been achieved.

Not going to argue with you over how many extra season ticket holders a name change would generate because neither of us know.

The baseline for most businesses to see an ROI for a project is 5 years. If the Bobcats used 5 years, they would only need to generate 200 incremental fans per season that avg. Spending $73 per game to break even(not factoring the time value of money or NPV or discounted cash flows) 200 fans over 5 years, please don't tell me you think that's a stretch as my family represents 2% of that total.

Again, none of that factors in any incremental revenue from merchandising.

You can argue that the team shouldn't do it for any reason you want and I respect your opinion. However, I analyze and am responsible for approving capital projects for a living and a 1 or 2 year return is a slam dunk yes every time.

They may choose not to do it but, i cant fathom it would be for economic reasons that stopped them.( if 3 million is indeed the total rebrand costs)

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Originally Posted by Felton for Prez

I don't believe that's true. I believe the New Orleans Hornets are making money on that hat and shirt, even though it says CLT.

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With all due respect, your wrong.

All NBA merchandise revenue is split evenly among all teams. ( I believe the only exception is that each team keeps all Merchandise revenue generated in their arena/team store)....

Which is why you see the Bobcats offer team store exclusives ( to drive traffic into their team store)

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Originally Posted by JGib23

Ziggy- I agree if it's the team you are playing. For example the thousands of Knicks fans that filled the arena 2 nights ago.

If I'm cheering my ass off for the Bobcats, and I'm wearing a Charlotte Hornets hat and shirt, I can't see how that is is disservice to the players in any way shape or form.
1. I'm cheering for them
2. I'm helping to pay their salary with my ticket revenue.
3. The are making money of a percentage of my Hornets hat and shirt.

Going by your logic, everyone not wearing Jordan Brand attire is doing a disservice to our owner.

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That's different. People aren't buying tickets to support Jordan Brand, They are buying tickets to support the Bobcats.

Supporting the Bobcats should be the reason that all the fans are there. There is simply no way that I would wear another team's jersey to the arena.

If everyone started showing up at the arena in Miami Heat jerseys would you be cool with that?

I'm not buying tickets to support any team other than the Bobcats. I cheer as loud for our team as any other fan in that arena.

How do you feel about the Carolina Cougar shirts?

People were wanting to rebrand to the Cougars and you see those in the arena. There was a Carolina Cougar shirt behind Steve and Dell .

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Originally Posted by JGib23

The Bobcats will have fixed cost to sell tickets no matter what the name is, the whole idea behind a name change is to bring "incremental" sales. If the team can't cover selling 1,000 incremental sales without adding any fixed headcount, they are severly understaffed.

It does not matter if they have a promotion like BOGO, if the rebrand cost $3m and they create an incremental $73 per game and get 1,000 people (that otherwise would not have bought season tickets) for 1 season, than the rebrand is paid for. The fact that those people would have free tickets the next season is irrelevant to the ROI because the ROI will have already been achieved.

Not going to argue with you over how many extra season ticket holders a name change would generate because neither of us know.

The baseline for most businesses to see an ROI for a project is 5 years. If the Bobcats used 5 years, they would only need to generate 200 incremental fans per season that avg. Spending $73 per game to break even(not factoring the time value of money or NPV or discounted cash flows) 200 fans over 5 years, please don't tell me you think that's a stretch as my family represents 2% of that total.

Again, none of that factors in any incremental revenue from merchandising.

You can argue that the team shouldn't do it for any reason you want and I respect your opinion. However, I analyze and am responsible for approving capital projects for a living and a 1 or 2 year return is a slam dunk yes every time.

They may choose not to do it but, i cant fathom it would be for economic reasons that stopped them.( if 3 million is indeed the total rebrand costs)

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200 add'l fans a year is not a stretch at all. We can do that WITHOUT the name change. Save the $3mm and put that towards people who already attend the games by offering the Wednesday night concession specials or other perks. THAT my friend is a real ROI. It's simple customer service, retain the clients you have. We are the one's paying the bills now.

I'm not from the Charlotte area, as my name indicates. I didn't grow up with the Hornets as my team. Really the only NBA team I've ever called my team is the Bobcats, Even though I grew up in Illinois during the MJ era, I was never really a "Bulls fan". Would I support the team if they changed their team to the Hornets? Probably, but do I think they should change to the Hornets? Absolutely not.

Let me explain this as simply as I can. The Bobcats and Hornets are two totally different franchises. You're not getting any history back if you bring back the Hornets nickname to Charlotte. You're not "bringing back" the Hornets franchise. You're renaming a completely different franchise to represent something that existed at one point in history.

If a person born today was given the name Michael Jordan, would everyone expect that kid to dominate the NBA one day? No, because he's not the same person. It's the same thing here. The name might be the same if we go back to the Hornets, but that is where the comparisons stop. They're not the same the franchise they were in the late 80's and 90's. Why change the name?

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Originally Posted by JMo

200 add'l fans a year is not a stretch at all. We can do that WITHOUT the name change. Save the $3mm and put that towards people who already attend the games by offering the Wednesday night concession specials or other perks. THAT my friend is a real ROI. It's simple customer service, retain the clients you have. We are the one's paying the bills now.

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What part of incremental isn't getting through?

Incremental for purposes of this debate = people that will buy tickets as a result of the name change that aren't currently buying tickets.

If you can't understand the basic premise for why the Bobcats themselves are considering the switch, I can't engage in any further discussion with you.

Just for the record- the bills aren't getting paid. Forbes estimated the team lost between 20-30 million last season ( the team says the losses weren't that large)

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Originally Posted by JGib23

With all due respect, your wrong.

All NBA merchandise revenue is split evenly among all teams. ( I believe the only exception is that each team keeps all Merchandise revenue generated in their arena/team store)....

Which is why you see the Bobcats offer team store exclusives ( to drive traffic into their team store)

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If I am wrong, that's fine, but your argument doesn't hold up then. You were trying to point out how wearing old Hornets gear isn't a diservice to the team. Using #3, your argument would hold if someone was wearing an Orlando Magic shirt or a New Orleans Hornets shirt. While that may be technically correct financially, which I'll concede, it clearly is a diservice to the team. Just because it says Charlotte doesn't mean you are supporting the team.

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Originally Posted by JGib23

I'm not buying tickets to support any team other than the Bobcats. I cheer as loud for our team as any other fan in that arena.

How do you feel about the Carolina Cougar shirts?

People were wanting to rebrand to the Cougars and you see those in the arena. There was a Carolina Cougar shirt behind Steve and Dell .

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That's a fair point. The only counter I have is that the team wore their throwbacks and sell merchandise in the team store. If they did the same with Hornets jerseys/gear, I'd feel differently.

JGib23, I keep hearing what it would cost to pay down this name change. I also keep hearing how simple it would be to do it and that folks would show up if done. What I haven't heard is why it needs to change. What question does it answer? What problem does it solve? Should we not be more genuine if it's all about identity and the kids that grew up on the name and give it back to the Greensboro Grasshoppers if it's all about returning the name to whence it came (note, they picked it up after it had been cold and dead a good decade if memory serves)?

I have been fortunate or unfortunate to have worked for two large companies that went through name changes (FUNB after I left) so I (and am sure some others here too) have some insights into this beyond simple cost and ROI. Bottom line from my POV is that you have to be fixing something if you are going to this effort. It's not just cost, it's time and a long on-going culture change that has to reinforce the name change from within.

US Air was a mid-sized airline with a ton of problems and used rebranding to fix the ONLY thing that was in their immediate control - moving the meter to make themselves appear more upscale. But they had a lot of problems that needed fixing that they could NOT fix in realtime.

With Wachovia/First Union, FUNB could not fix a reputation but they could "borrow" a better brand by taking on Wachovia's much better public image.

In both of those cases, you are talking about companies that simply cannot fix their underlying problems in the now so they use rebranding the same way a Hollywood star uses "rehab" as to misdirect from issues less easy to fix w/ glass cleaner and a squeegee. We are a basketball organization. We aren't these companies. We can see a turn-around in product in one or two good drafts and a good GM and coaching hire - we are seeing this right now. To re-become the Charlotte Hornets would be one thing - if we could re-take the history and draw a direct line to Bogues, Curry, Zo, LJ, Gill, Gminski, Rice, and so on might be cool. But we cannot - those guys simply will bear the same relationship they have with us today, guys that played for a Charlotte team - but even if we rename ourselves to the Hornets, we aren't that team. We would only be the Bobcats renamed to Hornets and to me, for 3mm or even fewer dollars, it just doesn't warm me up. I am a fan of Charlotte professional basketball and I am damned grateful that the Bobcats set up camp here and I love 'em for it. The hell with the Hornets - they left nearly a decade ago and I am sorry the door didn't leave a mark on their ass on the way out. Honestly, the more this goes on, the more entrenched I become realizing how ticked I was at the Hornets when they left.

If your theory is that we only need to sell an additional 200 tix per year for five to have the ROI you'd want, know that we increased ticket sales this year by 2000. That's 10-fold more than your litmus test without a name change. One might ask why rock the boat; you are getting a better ROI than you wanted.