I just wanted to hop in on the whole Mashburn thing. I liked Mash, he was real talented and put up some nice stats. But to me, he is one of the most disappointing/underwhelming players I've ever watched for Charlotte.
Whether it was injuries, or an unwillingness to become more efficient, he never became a great player like his talent and size afforded him. 19 points, 5.5 rebounds, and 4 assists is nice and all, but as a 6'8, 240 pound specimen, with his ball handling and craftiness, he should've been able to get 24-25 points, and 8-9 rebounds (5.5 is a disgraceful rebounding number for someone his size and skill), along with his 4-5 assists.
Like I said, he could give you a great stat line on any given night, but you couldn't really count on him regularly due to his inconsistency. And when the game was on the line, I just have bad memories of him coming up short time and time again, and just feeling unsatisfied.
Case in point is during our great playoff run in the 2000-01 season. We blew the door's off Miami in an awesome, unforgivingly brutal sweep, then should have beat Milwaukee in 6 games. And yes, I blame Mash for not getting it done. When we needed him the most, he just couldn't deliver, despite some initially deceiving stat lines. Now he was incredible in bringing us back in that series from down 0-2 to tie it, going off for 36 and 31. Awesome, and shows how good he could be.
But when we were at home to close out the series in Game 6, he could not bring it home. His stat line looks incredible: 24 points, 9 rebounds, 7 assists - almost Lebron like. But looking closer, he got that 24 on 5-20 shooting, and had 6 turnovers. I was at that game, and he kept throwing up brick after brick. When we needed him the most, he was 0-8 shooting in the second half with 5 turnovers.
Game 7, we definitely need our star, he gets 21 points, 4 rebounds, and 9 assists. Again, looks good on paper (besides the horrible 4 rebounds). But on closer examination, he got his 21 on 7-25 shooting, and again, needing him the most in the 4th quarter, he only went 1-5.
And the next year, right as the playoffs started, he gets vertigo of all things to guarantee our early exit again. Not his fault of course, but adds to the frustration and disappointment of the Mashburn era here.
So yeah, unnecessarily long post on short term Charlotte player - but I'm with Chef. Even though he was much more talented than Crash, Wallace maximized his abilities and played balls to the wall every night. And he's in the record books as I think the only non-big to average 2 blocks and 2 steals a game (Hakeem and David Robinson are the only others in the last few decades). I'm going to war with that guy.
And let's not forget how he averaged 10 rebounds a game as a small forward for a year. 10. Plus, there were multiple month long stretches where Crash would be averaging over 20 and 10.
And if we're being sticklers for "in Charlotte" accomplishments, he's the only All-Star the city's had in over 10 years. Mashburn was never an All-Star in Charlotte, even in a pathetic East. The year Crash went the other forwards were Lebron, KG, Pierce, and Bosh (3 out of 4 locks for the HoF and Bosh will likely get in as well), which I think is worth noting.
Finally, an All-Defense first team recognition while being the heart and soul of the NBA's best defense that year. He was a very impressive player.
I have read this thread and intentionally stayed out...as it seemed it was already covered...but I thought I would chime in.
I watched almost every single game that Mashburn AND Wallace played while they were in Charlotte. I really liked them both but Gerald Wallace definitely gets the nod from me.
As I already posted, my top 5 only includes 1 Bobcats player as the other 4 are Hornets (Baron, Rice, LJ, Zo) so I certainly have no bias towards more current players.
The team around Mash (Baron-Wesley-PJ Brown-Campbell) during the couple of years he was here is my 2nd favorite basketball "team" here ever with the 1st being the Zo-LJ era. BUT, individually, I will take Crash over Mash, or any other SF to ever play in this city...no question.
I don't see how you guys think Gerald Wallace was a better overall player than Jamal Mashburn.
Look at the career numbers, Mashburn was cleary a better player. But hey everybody has their opinion.
Gerald Wallace had a few good years with Charlotte, but look at his career body of work, dude was garbage in Sacramento and look at him now. He was awful last year with Brooklyn.
But how well did Mash use that talent? For someone with his size and skillset, he was incredibly (historically?) inefficient. 41% FG shooting is considered pretty bad for a small backcourt player, but for a frontcourt player, that is atrocious. Especially considering he never really took that many threes to artificially decrease his shooting percentage. That means he was always taking bad shots, fadeaways, forceups, and was an awful finisher at the basket in traffic (as a disclaimer, I never really watched him in Dallas or New Orleans, so maybe he was better there, but his bad shot selection in Charlotte is burned into my memory). He actually had 5 seasons shooting under 41%, even though he was injured in some, and was under 39% in 3 of them. Only once did he shoot 45%.
Wallace had 9 seasons shooting 45%, with two of them above 50%. I'd say, Wallace was much more talented at finishing around the rim, but less talented at jump shots. Wallace could take contact and was very crafty around the basket with good touch, and had the athleticism to get over many bigs down low. Mash would rather pull up and shoot his one footed fadeaways, but when he drove, he more often got blocked at the rim as he always ended up flat footed and hesitant around the basket. See my above post about the playoffs, as that was a microcosm of his 2 seasons here.
Then when it comes to rebounding, Mash had only one season over 7 rebounds at 7.6. Wallace had 5 seasons over 7, with high of 10 rebounds per game over a season.
Then we get to defense, where Mash never averaged over .3 blocks a game, and never over 1.1 steals per game. Wallace on the other hand, had 11 seasons of .3 blocks or more, with a high of 2.1 blocks. And he had 9 seasons over Mash's peak season in steals, averaging over 2.0 for 3 of the seasons with a high of 2.5, which was the best in the league that year. And made 1st team all defense.
The fairest way is to consider their peaks in Charlotte. Mash only played 2 years here, so I'll compare it to 2 years at Wallace's peak (2007 and 2009 seasons)
20.5 points, 41% FG, 36% 3FG, 7.0 rebounds, 5.0 assists, .1 blocks, 1.1 steals, 2.8 turnovers
18.7 points, 47% FG, 34% 3FG, 8.2 rebounds, 2.7 assists, 1.0 blocks, 1.8 steals, 2.6 turnovers
Wallace only scored 1.8 less points during his peak 2 years than did Mash in his two years, except Wallace was much more efficient during that time. He also rebounded better, had more blocks, steals, and less turnovers, while having a much greater impact on the defensive side of the ball and team intensity/energy (unquantifiable, but obvious to the eye test).
So now could you see how we view Wallace more favorably to Mash in Charlotte? His positive impact on the game across the board on offense and defense was much higher, except for assists, while Mash's negative impact on the team due to his inefficient shooting and turnovers was much higher than Wallace. Talent/potential difference was in Mash's favor, sure, but actual impact on the team is much more in favor of Wallace.
The stats don't lie, look at the career numbers not 1 or 2 years of their best season of Charlotte.
I will say it AGAIN!
JAMAL MASHBURN WAS BETTER THAN GERALD WALLACE THROUGHOUT THEIR WHOLE CAREER.
I can't be the only person who thinks this right?
You guys are basically saying you can choose a player's best season and base it off a whole career.
It's like saying Kevin Love was better than Tim Duncan in 2012 because he had better stats that year. NO NO NO it doesn't work like that!
Gerald Wallace was and will never be a better OVERALL PLAYER than Jamal Mashburn!
CMON PEOPLE you gotta agree with me right?
Rant over goodnight!