Reply With QuoteUhh, he's playing hurt and has been plagued with injuries since March?
Not to mention the hyper extended knee he suffered in Game 1.
Why does Jackson get a free pass?
I have seen Diaw and Felton as the players who have "held us back" against the defending Eastern Conference Champs (who won last year without their pg healthy for most of it), with the center position mentioned as being in need of an upgrade. My question is when you look at the 2 games we had a chance in winning, why does Jackson get a free pass from critique. In fairness, Jack shot well in Game 2, but had 7 TOs to 3 assists.
In Games 1 and 3, the 2 games we actually had a shot in Jack's numbers were:
33% fg--6 of 18 in each game
10% 3pt --1 of 10
4 assists/6 TOs
I bring this up again to break away from scripted sports analysis with the usual scapegoating and hero worship.
Stephen Jackson is a very talented player and was HUGE in turning around our season. However, I also think that his persona and bravado has created an inflated sense of how good he is (top 5 SG according to him) and allowed him to take large chunks of credit with minimal to zero criticism. He's the anti-Felton. He can get credit when things go well, while being absolved of critique when they don't.
My point is not in tearing him down (I think we are banging the rest of the team well enough), but in saying that if Jackson is going to receive all the team accolades, he should have some responsibility as well. In the 2 games we had a chance in (and I understand he was pulled and hurt in Game 1), the numbers above don't say to me how he gets credit for carrying us but not having help. His style is a high risk/high reward style. If he is own, he can carry you. If not, his isolations and ball freezing can throw the rhythm of other guys off as they don't know when the ball is coming.
Again, there is no ONE thing we can point to, as much as we want to. Orlando is just a better total team who has had a lot of playoff experience COLLECTIVELY and individually and is doing to a 7 seed what a 2 seed coming off a Finals appearnce does. That said, I really want to win Monday and will scream my guts out for us to do so.
Uhh, he's playing hurt and has been plagued with injuries since March?
Not to mention the hyper extended knee he suffered in Game 1.
DeSagana "camping the pine like its hot" Diop
Jackson is not the reason we are losing.
Jack and Gerald have been playing 2-on-5 against one of the best defenses in the league.
Should we expect more from Jack? Sure. But playoff ball is a different animal, particularly when you're on a team that has struggled so much offensively.
(And Van Gundy's been guarding him with Barnes and Pietrus, a very good defensive wing combo).
So 33% from the floor while taking 18 shots and 1 of 10 from 3 is not relevant to us winning or losing? Really?
Again, the 2 on 5 stuff is a nice script, but it's not what's taking place.
The fact is the Magic have a better overall team than we do and have been playing together longer.
Did any of you read what was in the post beyond the title?
There is plenty in there to suggest that Jack is ONE of the the many reasons why we are losing to a superior team. Again, I don't understand how he can take all the credit with no blame.
If you're going to give credit to the guy as being elite and a top 5 SG, then you have to also hold accountable. Furthermore, if your shot is off, you need to be a decoy and keep the ball moving on offense.
Last edited by 110oldeast; 04-25-2010 at 09:36 PM.
I think the majority of us get on him for his dumb passes and/or shots. But when you look at the big picture, he's doing much more to help us than he is hurt us. Guys like Ray and Doris are causing more trouble than they are helping the team, therefore they get much more derision than Jack or Crash.
I think its an excellent point. If he wants to be a the "star" he's supposed to step up. He clearly hasn't. If he's really top 5, he should be able to carry the team.
The part about Jack that gets horribly over looked (although touched on in a recent thread) is that he KILLS any ball movement. He just jabs steps and jab steps and jab steps some more. He is still our best offensive option and I am not here attempting exonerate Felton or Diaw.
Take DWade today. He took over and they won the game. I'm not saying Jax is DWade but a star is supposed to play like one when it counts. Jax hasn't done that. I doubt he disagree with that.
His play in this series isn't much different then what he has done all year since he got here. Two 6-18 nights sandwiching a 10-20 night is pretty much what I expected.
Since he got here he has taken the most shots by far and has one of the worst percentages on the team while being a turnover machine.
That said he has had some nice drives to the bucket on some of his made baskets when we needed 2 pts and it's not like we have a ton of other options. DJ and Diaw look gun shy, and nobody is really stepping up aside from the nice things larry hughes did in game 3.
I really hope we trade Jackson this summer though. It might make us a little worse in the short term, but at least I won't have to watch his constant bitching to the refs while the team plays 4 vs 5 on the other end.
Bingo. I am not trying to exonerate anyone either as have gotten on Boris and Ray for their lack of assertiveness at points.
My point is that there are a multitude of TEAM reasons why our 7 seed Bobcats are down to the 2 seed, defending champ Magic.
Swedd,
That sounds simple, but where is the evidence? I think everyone is guilty in parts (and have criticized all), but b/c folks are brainwashed by the Jack/Wallace articles, it's like criticism must not be thrown in this direction and thrown everywhere else as we act like they're putting up 30 per game a piece and getting no other help. Here's what's funny to me. I paid attention to the coverage of Game 1 and while all the rippage was on Felton's first half, folks mentioned our comeback, Jack's heart, etc. And yet, no one mentioned that Felton had 14 pts in the 2nd half, including 10 in the 4th while and shooting a high percentage, protecting the ball and holding Nelson to no fgs in that half. It's as if none of that happened and the comeback just sort of happened, much due to "Jack's heart." If the roles were reversed and Felton was the one who was 6 ogf 18 with 5 TOs, do you think it would have gotten covered that way? Like I said, Felton and Jack are antitheses of each other as Felton is only going to get blame and Jack is only going to get credit. I am simply saying everyone should be worthy of blame and praise.
When you have TWO games that you have a chance at winning and the "star" shoots 33% in both of them, putting up 18 shots in both, making 1 of 10 3s and having 2 assists per game compared to 3 TOs per game, he deserves SOME of the criticism. He had a wide open look down 1 in the closing moments. To whom much is given, much is expected.
Again, let's look at the actual games and break away from the script of us having a Jordan/Pippen combo with no help. Jack again is a very talented guy and our most versatile scorer and I am not on a drop Jack crusade. But at the same time his playmaking and scoring are high risk/high reward. Unfortunately, the reward has not outwieghed the risk in this series. Felton and Hughes had 13 and 14 respectively, while Tyrus Thomas had 8, so it's not like there was no help for Jack in the Game 3. Shooting 6-18 1-7 from 3 with 1 assist does not permit you to maintain star status and all the glory with no criticism.
Again, NO ONE should get off scott free in this series.
Originally Posted by Felton for Prez
Jack is like the gift and the curse for this team.
Take the 3pt shot in game 3: While the ball was in the air, I'm thinking PLEASE GO IN and we're up two but the big picture says attack the basket and something good will happen (especially considering D. Howard was gone). But looking at the entire season w/ Jack, he did this on numerous occasions and we we're on the positive end for the most part.
The TOs: I have no excuse for his ability (yes, ability b/c he does this well) to turn the ball over. I noticed this probably right before the all star break. But Jack would usually have a couple of bonehead plays in the 1st qtr/half and by the second half the TOs scaled back considerably. I mentioned in a post a while back that I couldn't understand why nobody mentions the SG's assist-to-turnover ratio. The PG's ratio is always mentioned in the NBA and that's understandable b/c they have the ball the most. But if your SG averages 30+ minutes a game his ratio must be taking into consideration. This has to get better but I can't see a 9-10 year vet changing so this is a mute point.
Ball movement: I have accepted this part of Jack's game. When he holds the ball and jabs or surveys the court he usually does something aggressive. When Gerald does this it's a disaster the majority of the time. But I know LB has to hate when this is done by anyone on the team.
With all this said I don't want to trade this guy unless the deal is unreal. I'm not sure if the makeup of the team will change greatly this summer. The biggest change could be LB leaving, and the potential exit of Ray & Tyrus. I definitely don't see Tyrus coming back if Boris is here. The guy wants to start (that's basically why he wanted out of Chicago) and as long as LB and Boris are here I don't see it happening. But only time will tell...
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