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....a long with little-to-no defense....again...I don't see LB buying into an Ellis trade...just MO...Originally Posted by rsxnova
Monta could give us a much needed scoring boost if he buys in.
....a long with little-to-no defense....again...I don't see LB buying into an Ellis trade...just MO...
A tribute to "Crash"...We'll miss you Dude...
Don't see it happening. Ellis really isn't a LB kind of player.
Hendo|MKG|Bismack
Proud Australian Bobcats Fan!!!
Unfounded and untrue.
Let's compare the DRtg's of both Stephen Jackson and Monta Ellis from the time they played together in Golden State. While we're at it, let's compare Monta to some other defensive minded players (Pietrus, Barnes). Keep in mind, lower is better.
2005-06
Monta = 107
Pietrus = 108
Team low = 103 (Foyle)
2006-07
Barnes = 107
Pietrus = 108
Monta = 109
Jack = 110
Team low = 104 (Foyle, Biedrens, O'Byrant)
2007-08
Pietrus = 107
Barnes = 108
Monta = 111
Jack =112
Team low = 103 (O'Bryant
2008-09 Remember, this is the season Monta only played 25 games due to that scooter accident
Monta = 114
Jack = 114
Team low = 107 (Biedrins)
Now let's look at Jack this past year for the Warriors and then the Cats:
Warriors (9 games) = 112
Bobcats (72 games) = 103*
*That's equal to Felts', a guy whom we all hold in high regard as far as defense goes. Jack jumped a whopping 9 points going from a fast paced team to a slow paced team. Why couldn't Monta do the same? In fact, if he were to have an equal 9 point drop, he'd also equal Felt's 103 from this year.
So basically, Monta is an equal-to-better defender than Stephen Jackson. We all think Jack is a good defensive player don't we? Right. So let's not jump the gun on a guy like Monta just because he plays in an uptempo style for a coach who wouldn't know a defensive scheme if it punched him in the face. Defense is more about effort than anything else (evidenced by Tyrus' stellar 96 for us last year), and if he were to put in the work that LB demands, I have full faith that he'd be able to play, at the very least, adequate defense.
To be fair DRTG is heavily influenced by who else is on the court with the player (points scored per 100 possessions while the player is on the court):
http://rotosynthesis.rotowire.com/Ra...ncy-BBD569.htm
To look at a player individually (and esp. PGs) I'd rather opponents' PER...tho really there's nothing better than the "eye test" in determining a players individual value defensively.On defense, because DRTG is a team measure it can be unduly influenced by teammates. If a great defender is surrounded by poor defenders his DRTG may be worse (i.e. higher) than others on other teams a comparable ability while a poor defender can get a boost by being in a good system. For instance, in 2007 Kevin Garnett’s DRTG was 101 while the average DRTG of the other four starters was over 110. In 2008 KG got adequate defensive teammates and led the league in DRTG (94), while those same four teammates from Minnesota (Ricky Davis, Mark Blount, Trenton Hassell, Mike James) all saw their DRTG rise (average DRTG = 113) once no longer next to Garnett. This was clearly a case where a great defender was being pulled down by weak defensive teammates, and correspondingly he was improving what should have been even worse scores for them.
For instance...I still maintain that Tyson Chandler was the best player we've EVER had in defending the P/R. Is there a stat to prove/disprove that?
Monta? I just haven't watched him enough. He is quick as hell with his first step and I assume he at least has average side to side movement. He's got the height (vs PGs), so really the only requirement left is desire.
...which BTW is a HUGE thing. If Monta would buy in with our philosophy I have no doubt he could become a better than average defender.
Hope Resurrected: "I think I can bring an attitude to a team as far as, ‘All right, no matter what, we are not losing this game'." - Kemba Walker
"Its okay to be bad; just so long as you're bad ass." - Keetch
Ellis is the most turnover prone player in the league. I don't want him combined with Jax in the backcourt. They would turn the ball over on every 2nd possesion. And keep in mind, we have Boris and Tyrus in the froncourt who also tend to be careless with the ball.
watching them all playing together would be a pain in the ass. Do not want.
Notable players who average 4 or more turnovers/48 minutes:
Steve Nash
Dwight Howard
Dwayne Wade
Deron Williams
LeBron James
Kevin Durant
Rajon Rondo
Kobe Bryant
Do you not want them either?
those guys mentioned are franchise players on contenders, who have defined roles on their teams and got the ball in their hands, most of the time. Monta Ellis is a 6'3" small, high volume chucking shooting guard who plays for one of the worst teams in the league.
Why did you come up with this comparison? This is not even debatable.
You didn't say anything about him being good or not. You said he was turnover prone--and used that as a means to say he'd suck here. When, in fact, guys like Steve Nash turn the ball over more.
1. High usage rates = high turnover rates
2. High tempo basketball = high turnover rates
3. Crappy team = more focus on good players (Monta) = high turnover rates
If you don't like him, say it. Don't make up some wacky, hypocritical mess like "he turns the ball over too much so he sucks".
uhm, I've always said I didn't like him. I thought this isn't anything new?
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