Kwame Brown

[DY_nasty]

he did have to out-bid us. he had to offer enough so that ray would not resign with us for 5 years at 25-30mil

We never gave Ray an offer.

[spectre]

I'm glad we're not on the hook for him at 6 years 8.5 per, but unless we upgrade the PG spot (which I think we'll make every effort to do so) the team will miss him on the court.

"Addition by subtraction" is pure bullshit.

[BRNC]

...up to this point we've only "subtracted" with Ray walking...tough defender who comes to play every night...no PG on the roster (at this point) has shown anything close to Rays' all-around game and ability to get better each year...

Was Ray the answer...not really for the long term...but IMO he was the best PG we had...and is better than the guys we currently have so what did we gain by addition?

[Toocool]

Kevin Martin spent the first few weeks of this year on the injured list. His scoring went down from the previous year. He wasn't getting to the line as much and his 3pt shooting fell off. And his defense? you thought it was bad before? l.o.l. he's an embarrassment every possession.

His ppg dropped, but thats not all. His value on the court dropped off. He still got his buckets, but Adelman didn't even want him on the court.

All the smaller circumstances really aren't even that important to the comparison. When he was on a horrible team, he was seen as a better player than he really was. The same can be said for Felton, except the fact that Felton wasn't even that good to begin with and instead of having a coach that openly detests his presence on the court like Adelman, he has a coach that removes him making decisions with the ball.

Where did we bring defense into this? I have made no notion of defense, only of his rebounding stat. His scoring went down due to Evans scoring 20 ppg? Also because Adelman didn't think Martin and Evans meshed well together. Of course he would of gotten rid of Evans instead of Martin, as Evans has far more upside at this point.

All the smaller circumstances are important and I still stand by it. It's a completely different situation, Felton and Martin.

[SWedd523]

Martin is just about the perfect complement of a guy like Reke. He can spot up for the outside shot wen Reke drives the lane, or he can break his man down when Reke is demanding doubles.

[DY_nasty]

Where did we bring defense into this? I have made no notion of defense, only of his rebounding stat. His scoring went down due to Evans scoring 20 ppg? Also because Adelman didn't think Martin and Evans meshed well together. Of course he would of gotten rid of Evans instead of Martin, as Evans has far more upside at this point.

All the smaller circumstances are important and I still stand by it. It's a completely different situation, Felton and Martin.

I think you're missing my point entirely...

I'm not talking specifically about each player, just how their value diminishes as their surroundings improve.

[teej]

I'm not talking specifically about each player, just how their value diminishes as their surroundings improve.

erm...Pau Gasol?

[DY_nasty]

erm...Pau Gasol?

I never said it was the norm or anything like that. I said before - certain players. As Memphis' talent increased, Pau's numbers never went down.

Better examples would be Jamal Crawford and Jason Terry.

Even then, all Pau has shown in LA is that he's been able to be a great #2 guy. He did alright in Memphis as the go to guy and leader, but its pretty clear that he's much more successful and comfortable playing off of Kobe.

[teej]

I never said it was the norm or anything like that. I said before - certain players. As Memphis' talent increased, Pau's numbers never went down.

Better examples would be Jamal Crawford and Jason Terry.

Even then, all Pau has shown in LA is that he's been able to be a great #2 guy. He did alright in Memphis as the go to guy and leader, but its pretty clear that he's much more successful and comfortable playing off of Kobe.

A) Pau is one of the top 5 big men in the League. But every big man needs a little man to win.

B) Crawford and Terry are both 6th Men of the Year. I'd hardly call that lowering stats.

C) Your point in general is true, but it's hardly a rule. There's no way to point and say "This guy did worse." Their talent or star level doesn't change, just their usage.

[DY_nasty]

A) Pau is one of the top 5 big men in the League. But every big man needs a little man to win.

B) Crawford and Terry are both 6th Men of the Year. I'd hardly call that lowering stats.

C) Your point in general is true, but it's hardly a rule. There's no way to point and say "This guy did worse." Their talent or star level doesn't change, just their usage.

I'm not the one who brought up Pau at all...

Crawford and Terry were both 6th men of the year after they put up big numbers as starters on terrible teams. Atlanta's teams were crap with Terry and it even took Terry a while to adjust to 'winning' once he got to Dallas.

And yeah, its not a rule, but it generally is very common for guys who put up big numbers on crappy teams and continue to put up big numbers as their teams don't get any better. Pau at least took his team to the playoffs. He may have actually won a game or two if he didn't get matched up against the Spurs too.