Devin Harris

[teej]

Tex, normally you're at least close to right. But this isn't one of those times.

Baseball is hardly a dying sport and anyone who truly knows and follows baseball knows that. Also if a person knows and appreciates the sport it is not boring.

I love baseball, and I appreciate it, but it's boring as hell. I can only watch Big Papi (my favorite player) unsnap and snap his gloves before the 17th pitch of the at bat before he draws a walk. Sorry, but I'd rather not.

The Marlins were a very high drawing team during the winning years so I tend to think my take on the topic has more merit than yours. You are obviously swayed by a dislike for baseball so your opinion on the matter hardly holds any weight. Baseball has the longest and most storied history of ANY American sport. It may be going through some struggles but it is not because the sport is way less popular than it has ever been.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/marlins3.shtml

Nice statistics to invalidate your point. Marlins drew 3 mil their inagural seasons, haven't been there since. They haven't even been above average since 1997. That 2003 title? Didn't help much.

And baseball has a long and storied history, but unfortunately Bud Selig thinks it's still 1950. Until baseball his instant replay, more watchable games, and better entertainment in general, I'll watch football and basketball. And have you been to a baseball game lately? Unless you're rich, it's impossible to get a good seat without going into debt. Why bother going?

On to other sports and Miami and Tampa Bay. Tampa Bay at one time supported the Jaguars but ownership has been piss poor in recent years and people do not want to support losers. The Miami Heat hardly garnered a ton of support despite having won a title. Dolphins fans have been fair weather lately.

Tampa Bay Jaguars? nice.

As far as the old retiree crap that just does not float. If the pro leagues putting professional sports teams in Tampa St. Pete thought there was no realistic possibility of fan support they would not have put three count them three pro teams there. Tampa can not be looked as being much different than Charlotte. The people will show up when the team gets in the playoffs and if they win a title they will all have a parade. As of now they are afraid to feel too connected to the team. If after Tampa wins a title and it looks like the owners are behind keeping a winner the Tampa people will support the Rays.

So getting to the World Series and having the best record in baseball for a good portion of two different seasons doesn't warrant more than 12k fans? Hm. The Bobcats got more than that, and they have less than half the capacity of the Rays stadium.

As far as people in Fla not going to see baseball in the summer when it is hot that shit does not float. People spend countless hours outdoors in the summertime and there is this thing called sun block and also people can enjoy cooling agents such as cola or any other liquid refreshment. If you don't like baseball that is your right but don't assume that a region with a large Latin population and plenty of transplants feels as you feel.

Agreed on this, since Tampa's indoor, air conditioned stadium gets as few fans as the Marlins outdoor stadium.

It could just be the Miami, Tampa areas are fair weather cities. Many of you have described Charlotte as such so why should it be a surprise that Tampa and Miami are much the same? Still based on what I said concerning the Marlins I can understand some apprehension about getting behind the team. The people of Tampa are not avoiding the Rays because they are old, the weather is hot or baseball is a dying sport. Hockey is less popular by a long shot compared to baseball yet the league still is strong and in no way nearly dying.

Yeah, hockey's doing great. They've only got a franchise in bankruptcy and tons of empty seats everywhere in the US, and a shitty tv deal that keeps them off the set for most Americans outside the local teams.

Tex, baseball isn't what it used to be. Barry Bonds and Mark McGwire made sure of that. Sure, the Yankees and Red Sox are fine, but there are too many small market teams that can't be both competitive and profitable. The Rays are losing money like crazy. How is that good for baseball?

Oh, and Evan Longoria and David Price definitely agree that if they win, the fans will come.

[SWedd523]

They won't even make the playoffs this year. The team has taken a complete step backward. But if you want to continue defending incompetency and pretending like this offseason has been some sort of lucrative period then go for it.

First of all, Tyson looked like hot dookey in FIBA so I have no idea what you were watching. He couldn't even start on a team who's biggest flaw was lack of size. Lamar Fucking Odom started at Center.

We traded for Dampier in the hopes that he'd lead us to get Chris Paul or the numerous other guys we were linked with, most recently Devin Harris. The reason we didn't get all of the players we targeted is because the other teams didn't like our offer or didnt want to trade their guy. How that makes our FO incompetent is beyond me.

I'm not going to sit here an be an irrational spectator and say the FO is nothing but retards when we KNOW they were trying to get these guys and god knows who else since none of us have ears in the FO.

The only thing "incompetent" here is you and the rest of the people blindly bashing the FO when it clearly has no logic to it. Stop acting like a bitter grandma who just lost a game of bridge.

[Muttley]

There's a whole bunch of grey area between having a "lucrative offseason" and having an "incompetent front office." This team had neither of those things.

Also, let's suppose Tyson did look good in FIBA ball. Well, he was also allowed to interfere with the ball when it was on the rim. I'm sure that helped him. Didn't he get called for that a few times last season?

[Chef]

Tex, normally you're at least close to right. But this isn't one of those times.



I love baseball, and I appreciate it, but it's boring as hell. I can only watch Big Papi (my favorite player) unsnap and snap his gloves before the 17th pitch of the at bat before he draws a walk. Sorry, but I'd rather not.



http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/marlins3.shtml

Nice statistics to invalidate your point. Marlins drew 3 mil their inagural seasons, haven't been there since. They haven't even been above average since 1997. That 2003 title? Didn't help much.

And baseball has a long and storied history, but unfortunately Bud Selig thinks it's still 1950. Until baseball his instant replay, more watchable games, and better entertainment in general, I'll watch football and basketball. And have you been to a baseball game lately? Unless you're rich, it's impossible to get a good seat without going into debt. Why bother going?



Tampa Bay Jaguars? nice.



So getting to the World Series and having the best record in baseball for a good portion of two different seasons doesn't warrant more than 12k fans? Hm. The Bobcats got more than that, and they have less than half the capacity of the Rays stadium.



Agreed on this, since Tampa's indoor, air conditioned stadium gets as few fans as the Marlins outdoor stadium.



Yeah, hockey's doing great. They've only got a franchise in bankruptcy and tons of empty seats everywhere in the US, and a shitty tv deal that keeps them off the set for most Americans outside the local teams.

Tex, baseball isn't what it used to be. Barry Bonds and Mark McGwire made sure of that. Sure, the Yankees and Red Sox are fine, but there are too many small market teams that can't be both competitive and profitable. The Rays are losing money like crazy. How is that good for baseball?

Oh, and Evan Longoria and David Price definitely agree that if they win, the fans will come.

i had crafted a resopnse and somehow didn't post it correctly, then decided this was a basketball place and not a baseball place, but since we are talking about it:

1. baseball is dying. attendance had been trending downward before the crash. it really hasn't rebounded since the mid 90's strike. mac and sosa brought it back for a year or two then everyone caught on to the steroids thing and it lost momentum. (ps- the steroids thing is completely unfair to baseball while football and basketball both have rampant PED issues that no one is really concerned with)
2. it is boring. partly due to the way the game is constructed but more so to the fact it takes over 3 and sometimes 4 hours to play a game.
3. the other posters have really hit it right with why it doesn't work in florida. i used to live there, nobody cares about pro-ball and if they do they are most likely braves fans. florida is all about football. basketball doesn't even do that well in miami, the only sports that do well are the the U football and the dolphins. my father in-law lives in tampa and he said the were GIVING away ALCS tickets and still couldn't fill the stadium
4. kids do not grow up with baseball the same way our parents or even our generation (70's and 80's) did. kids are all about football now. baseball's fanbase is getting much older and it doesn't help that they insist on running major playoff and all WS games from 9p-1a. no kids see the late inning magic anymore. baseball needs to speed up the action to keep attention when you are competing with video games, internet, cell phones and 700 other channels.
of course selig is ruining baseball also. is it good for a league when 2/3 of teams have no chance by the 3 week of a 7 month season?

look, i may not like baseball all that much but that doesn't discount or invalidate my opinion anymore than your love for baseball validates yours. baseball doesn't need your interest or butt in the seat (they already have it) they need mine and every other non-interested, used to like baseball as a kid now am so bored with it i don't care anymore casual fan to come back. and until they make a better product (or at least one that ends in less time than 2 complete basketball games) they will continue to have a literally dying fanbase.

[Chef]

and the drama continues...

from twitter:
# Marc Stein STEIN_LINE_HQ

You've heard word "dead" used to describe four-way trade that would have sent Melo to New Jersey. "Dormant" is far safer description 13 minutes ago via ÜberTwitter


# Marc Stein STEIN_LINE_HQ

We've seen it many times before: Any time trade gets that far down the line, trade can be revived because so much of framework was in place 12 minutes ago via ÜberTwitter



# Marc Stein STEIN_LINE_HQ

No question most folks connected w/these trade talks believe Nets will have to assemble new multi-team deal if they want Melo. However ... 11 minutes ago via ÜberTwitter

# Marc Stein STEIN_LINE_HQ

Annoyed as they were by delays/Denver indecision CHA & UTAH lose out if new deal develops: Bobs on PG upgrade w/Harris; Jazz on big savings 6 minutes ago via ÜberTwitter

# Marc Stein STEIN_LINE_HQ

Nets obviously/rightfully want story to die so Harris/Favors don't get trade questions every day. Safe to say, though, Nets still want Melo 3 minutes ago via ÜberTwitter


# STEIN_LINE_HQ

And safe to say Nuggets, much as they're clinging to hope they can somehow talk Melo back on board, won't stop taking/making Melo calls 2 minutes ago via ÜberTwitter

[BobCatsFanInTx]

Tex, normally you're at least close to right. But this isn't one of those times.



I love baseball, and I appreciate it, but it's boring as hell. I can only watch Big Papi (my favorite player) unsnap and snap his gloves before the 17th pitch of the at bat before he draws a walk. Sorry, but I'd rather not.



http://www.baseball-almanac.com/teams/marlins3.shtml

Nice statistics to invalidate your point. Marlins drew 3 mil their inagural seasons, haven't been there since. They haven't even been above average since 1997. That 2003 title? Didn't help much.

And baseball has a long and storied history, but unfortunately Bud Selig thinks it's still 1950. Until baseball his instant replay, more watchable games, and better entertainment in general, I'll watch football and basketball. And have you been to a baseball game lately? Unless you're rich, it's impossible to get a good seat without going into debt. Why bother going?



Tampa Bay Jaguars? nice.



So getting to the World Series and having the best record in baseball for a good portion of two different seasons doesn't warrant more than 12k fans? Hm. The Bobcats got more than that, and they have less than half the capacity of the Rays stadium.



Agreed on this, since Tampa's indoor, air conditioned stadium gets as few fans as the Marlins outdoor stadium.



Yeah, hockey's doing great. They've only got a franchise in bankruptcy and tons of empty seats everywhere in the US, and a shitty tv deal that keeps them off the set for most Americans outside the local teams.

Tex, baseball isn't what it used to be. Barry Bonds and Mark McGwire made sure of that. Sure, the Yankees and Red Sox are fine, but there are too many small market teams that can't be both competitive and profitable. The Rays are losing money like crazy. How is that good for baseball?

Oh, and Evan Longoria and David Price definitely agree that if they win, the fans will come.

The Tampa Bay Jaguars was a brain fart but the Jacksonville Jaguars used to have pretty good fan turnout till their ownership started stinking. Who knows what makes Florida fans tick. Orlando seems to be the only city with decent regular turnout. Then again the Orlando Magic has had solid ownership that truly does try to bring a title to the city.

To a certain degree I agree with you that baseball is boring but for me much of that is due to the long ass season. I myself get into baseball in late August when the pennant races heat up. Still, having a firm understanding of the sport of baseball I find it can be plenty entertaining. To each their own I guess. One could say that football and basketball in Fla. are dying. None of the big four pro sports organizations in most of the state get the kind of fan participation they should get. Even when teams are winning their is hardly sellouts.

When it comes to football I love football but if I had not been watching it since age 10 and sharing it with older male adults I would today find football quite boring. There really is not all that much to the game for those who were not raised with it. The running game most of the time is about as exciting as pulling teeth.

Baseball will NEVER die!!! It may suffer some injuries but it will always be a part of Americana. Like football, baseball is a tradition passed down from a man to a boy and for that reason the sports have life.

As far as NHL Hockey, all the statistics against it have as much to do with a large portion of the American sports media not liking it. Much like I think people such as yourselves are seriously slanted toward football and basketball, NFL and NBA as the best forms of entertainment. Hockey is no doubt in some financial turmoil but I am sure they will do what is needed to become stronger. They won't fold.

At the end of the day the MLB and NHL are far from life support.

On to Florida's MLB teams. Florida's Marlins are building a new stadium and as a poster on another site said, the Houston Astro's were struggling to get fans even when they were winning till they built a new antiquated stadium. It could make a huge difference for both the Fla. teams if they have new stadiums. Another also said baseball is as entertaining as watching paint dry but if that was a common opinion the sport would be dead by now. Barry Bonds and Mark McGuire or not. If they could speed up the games that may help bring new and more fans.

So here's my take on baseball and the MLB. I would hardly say that the steroid era has destroyed baseball. If strikes and the such don't ruin the sport it is hardly a forgone conclusion that baseball is ruined by some drug enhanced hurculean home run feats that people see as cheating.

Hockey may NEVER enjoy the same kind of successes as the other three major team sports leagues but it will always have a following. The argument that hockey is a northern sport no longer holds wait because in this country nearly every state and city has transplants from other areas of the country who bring with them a love of the sport. Many a southern city has solid to great turnouts for NHL games.

Baseball has taken a hit but I doubt the steroid era has ruined it to the point where the sport is doomed. I continue to love baseball at it's competitive strategical best when close games are won by the best players and managers. Not all games are close but when they are baseball is a blast.

I will say that the Rays will have plenty of fair weather fans at the Rays home playoff games. Maybe if the Rays can ride the momentum of the end of the regular season through the playoffs and win a title they will have plenty of fans starting next season.

The Rays are one of my favorite teams so I hope there is some fans for the playoffs. The Rays deserve to have some support.

[BobCatsFanInTx]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/4...m-in-tampa-bay

Read into this what you will..
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/4...ce-down-701000

[ohara831]

and the drama continues...

from twitter:
# Marc Stein STEIN_LINE_HQ

You've heard word "dead" used to describe four-way trade that would have sent Melo to New Jersey. "Dormant" is far safer description 13 minutes ago via ÜberTwitter


# Marc Stein STEIN_LINE_HQ

We've seen it many times before: Any time trade gets that far down the line, trade can be revived because so much of framework was in place 12 minutes ago via ÜberTwitter



# Marc Stein STEIN_LINE_HQ

No question most folks connected w/these trade talks believe Nets will have to assemble new multi-team deal if they want Melo. However ... 11 minutes ago via ÜberTwitter

# Marc Stein STEIN_LINE_HQ

Annoyed as they were by delays/Denver indecision CHA & UTAH lose out if new deal develops: Bobs on PG upgrade w/Harris; Jazz on big savings 6 minutes ago via ÜberTwitter

# Marc Stein STEIN_LINE_HQ

Nets obviously/rightfully want story to die so Harris/Favors don't get trade questions every day. Safe to say, though, Nets still want Melo 3 minutes ago via ÜberTwitter


# STEIN_LINE_HQ

And safe to say Nuggets, much as they're clinging to hope they can somehow talk Melo back on board, won't stop taking/making Melo calls 2 minutes ago via ÜberTwitter

I just hope the teams FO people keep their mouths shut, and there are no "sources" telling us this and that. I'd rather it just come out of nowhere and BAM it hits us. But Friday-Monday was exhausting and we dont need that crap again. That said, if I see anything interesting, you know I'll post it. So keep a watchful eye and let us know anything happening! :-)

[BobCatsFanInTx]

i had crafted a resopnse and somehow didn't post it correctly, then decided this was a basketball place and not a baseball place, but since we are talking about it:

1. baseball is dying. attendance had been trending downward before the crash. it really hasn't rebounded since the mid 90's strike. mac and sosa brought it back for a year or two then everyone caught on to the steroids thing and it lost momentum. (ps- the steroids thing is completely unfair to baseball while football and basketball both have rampant PED issues that no one is really concerned with)
2. it is boring. partly due to the way the game is constructed but more so to the fact it takes over 3 and sometimes 4 hours to play a game.
3. the other posters have really hit it right with why it doesn't work in florida. i used to live there, nobody cares about pro-ball and if they do they are most likely braves fans. florida is all about football. basketball doesn't even do that well in miami, the only sports that do well are the the U football and the dolphins. my father in-law lives in tampa and he said the were GIVING away ALCS tickets and still couldn't fill the stadium
4. kids do not grow up with baseball the same way our parents or even our generation (70's and 80's) did. kids are all about football now. baseball's fanbase is getting much older and it doesn't help that they insist on running major playoff and all WS games from 9p-1a. no kids see the late inning magic anymore. baseball needs to speed up the action to keep attention when you are competing with video games, internet, cell phones and 700 other channels.
of course selig is ruining baseball also. is it good for a league when 2/3 of teams have no chance by the 3 week of a 7 month season?

look, i may not like baseball all that much but that doesn't discount or invalidate my opinion anymore than your love for baseball validates yours. baseball doesn't need your interest or butt in the seat (they already have it) they need mine and every other non-interested, used to like baseball as a kid now am so bored with it i don't care anymore casual fan to come back. and until they make a better product (or at least one that ends in less time than 2 complete basketball games) they will continue to have a literally dying fan base.

All valid points. In actuality the turnout for baseball was pretty good in 2009 but if you don't think that the economy is not playing a major factor you are kidding yourself. Also the part about 2/3 of the teams having no chance by the 3rd week of a 7 month season is pretty exaggerated. I do feel they could knock a month off the schedule but I will leave it up to the heads of the MLB to decide if that is imperative. You do know that baseball has been written off many times and every time they come back stronger than before they went through the hard times.

I would not quite write baseball off just yet.

[ammofan]

So is stein saying that the Bobcats are in this "new deal"....but were not getting Devin? lol wuttt?