Let's be Realistic about the trades

[teej]

Spectre, I'm not going to address most of your points because you aren't thinking clearly enough right now anyways.

But after the new CBA is signed, GW would've been an albatross contract. This puts us and very few other teams in a good spot beyond this season.

[WrxErik]

Jack, diop, carroll, and najera's, contracts are any better?

[SWedd523]

Man it's ALL about the money. That's all it's been ever since the lollipop bought this team. Look at the end result we now have from 3 starters that made the playoffs...and would probably have been a 50 win team if we'd started the season with Jax from day 1. Two mid range picks and a few depth guys we most likely could have picked up for a 2nd rounder. The only other payoff? MONEY.

Until I see different I see Jordan as a skinflint no better than the likes of Shinn.

Of course.

These trades have nothing to do with rebuilding or hedging for the future. It's about the current state of affairs--the bottom line. I'll repost the "template" for rebuilding to drive the point home:


1. Bring in young talent
2. Bring in lottery picks
3. Get rid of albatross contracts


1? The best young piece we brought in was Dante. And he's never going to give you more than 10-15 minutes a game.

2? The New Orleans pick as it currently stands, is going to be 21st. That pick has little to no value for a rebuilding team because stars are rarely taken out the top 10. The Portland pick as it currently stands (I know it's not until 2013) is 19th, so read my previous statement. Also, the picks we traded our franchise player for? Teams routinely buy them for cash considerations on draft night.

3? Is Diop gone? Hammer? Najera? Diaw? Jack?


We aren't rebuilding. We're tightening the budget because MJ doesn't want to operate in the red. As a businessman, I can understand. But as a competitor, I cannot.

[dnbman]

Jack, diop, carroll, and najera's, contracts are any better?

Fellas, let me clarify my point that I think Spectre understood, despite more poor phrasing, after he reread my post:

We have a lot of bad contracts. We need to systematically rid ourselves of them and move forward rather than continuing to collect them in trying to make this team work.

Wallace's contract was not an albatross contract, but it was a large contract. Considering we were not able to move any of the other big contracts, we had to do something to start moving towards flexibility and rebuilding.

To put it another way, if we would have traded Jax and not Wallace, we would have been the same or worse in our playoff run and had to give up an asset. In trading Wallace, we acquired assets that could potentially really help us.

(Knowing exactly which two picks they are would go a long way toward making me feel relieved.)

[spectre]

Spectre, I'm not going to address most of your points because you aren't thinking clearly enough right now anyways.

But after the new CBA is signed, GW would've been an albatross contract. This puts us and very few other teams in a good spot beyond this season.

Bull shit.

With the likes of guys like Gana Diop, Reggie Evans, Joel Przybilla, Matt Carroll, Maggette, Salmons, Gooden (need I go on?) a guy that brought what he did is well worth what he made. HE WON GAMES. Those others just take up space and are only making like 2-4 million LESS than Crash.

Of course.

These trades have nothing to do with rebuilding or hedging for the future. It's about the current state of affairs--the bottom line. I'll repost the "template" for rebuilding to drive the point home:


1. Bring in young talent
2. Bring in lottery picks
3. Get rid of albatross contracts


1? The best young piece we brought in was Dante. And he's never going to give you more than 10-15 minutes a game.

2? The New Orleans pick as it currently stands, is going to be 21st. That pick has little to no value for a rebuilding team because stars are rarely taken out the top 10. The Portland pick as it currently stands (I know it's not until 2013) is 19th, so read my previous statement. Also, the picks we traded our franchise player for? Teams routinely buy them for cash considerations on draft night.

3? Is Diop gone? Hammer? Najera? Diaw? Jack?


We aren't rebuilding. We're tightening the budget because MJ doesn't want to operate in the red. As a businessman, I can understand. But as a competitor, I cannot.

Exactly. All this positive stuff is just hope and rationalization. Jordan isn't thinking beyond that bottom line NOW.

[dnbman]

1. Bring in young talent
2. Bring in lottery picks
3. Get rid of albatross contracts

But we don't have ANYTHING to do that with! Most of our contracts are multiple years that nobody wants. We can't convert any of those contracts into lottery picks or young talent. Wallace was the only piece we had to trade that would bring us back assets.

Ultimately, we have to ask ourselves: given our roster with Wallace, how likely is it that we would have escaped the first round over the next two years?

Probably very slim. So, yeah, we save a bunch of money and try to start rebuilding the best we can.

[spectre]

Fellas, let me clarify my point that I think Spectre understood, despite more poor phrasing, after he reread my post:

We have a lot of bad contracts. We need to systematically rid ourselves of them and move forward rather than continuing to collect them in trying to make this team work.

Wallace's contract was not an albatross contract, but it was a large contract. Considering we were not able to move any of the other big contracts, we had to do something to start moving towards flexibility and rebuilding.

To put it another way, if we would have traded Jax and not Wallace, we would have been the same or worse in our playoff run and had to give up an asset. In trading Wallace, we acquired assets that could potentially really help us.

(Knowing exactly which two picks they are would go a long way toward making me feel relieved.)

But we didn't move any of those bad deals.

I'd MUCH rather have forgone those mid 1sts if they'd have taken Gana. I'd still be pissed, but at least I could see some reason behind it. As it sits now we STILL have those bad contracts and the players that are actually worth anything have been traded for cash and "maybes".

What's the odds of getting a starter with a 20th pick? Not only that...what's OUR odds of getting a starter with a 20th pick?

I understand getting assets. In my mind (and I can be wrong...yet to be deternined) those are mighty piddling assets, esp. for a guy who is 28 and was an all star last year.

[BRNC]

spectre..I feel your pain but I feel MJs pain also...I admire the fact that the last two players on our team, Crash and Nazzy, are actually going to teams that may get some serious play off burn...and I love the fact they did not end up in a sh**-hole like Cleveland, although I like Cleveland fine I'm referring to the team...lol...

But, I think those of us (as realist) that thought we might have a chance for the playoffs knew we get blown out (again) in the first round...some of this trade was about money...we've practically doubled what what's coming off the books end of season...

It gives us time to see if we actually have some young guys on the roster we need to keep...

We have a couple of young players coming in we need to take a close look at...

We have two first round picks we did not have...

Crash and Nazzy were the best things for me left on this team...and damn if those two didn't continue to help this team on the way out...I'll miss them both because they are class guys...

MJ tried bringing in a HOF coach that pissed this franchise into cap-he**...and MJ knows we have to get out and still remain competitive...I think he is doing the best he can given the "failure" of LB and the contract he had to have...

DNB and others have pointed out slowly but surely we should (by 2013) get most of the albatross off...and these trades have helped us on that path...I hate them but I understand them...

Now...the FO had better "make good" on what they've done...I'm willing to give them the chance...

[teej]

What DNB said. Wallace was the only guy who could have brought ANYTHING postive for the future in return. We would have had to pull a Baron Davis-esque giveaway trade to get rid of Gana or Carroll, and would only get an expiring for Jack.

[dnbman]

I'd MUCH rather have forgone those mid 1sts if they'd have taken Gana.

We don't know what the picks are yet. Last I heard, we were getting the NO pick for this season and Portland's '13 pick, which could end up being nice if Roy can't get healthy. (Which, man, might also be sweet justice from the 2006 draft! No, I didn't say that, universe! I take it back!)