Reply With Quoteif i was a wiz fan i wouldnt be a on a bobcats forum, and bobcats fans dont hate on kwame? not when im at the games everybody shows frustration when he cant finish, theres a difference between fan & groupieOriginally Posted by LiquidWayno
Kwame hate by Wiz fans? Fair. By Bobcats fans, not at all. Curry is a realistic choice for someone to shoot for down the load. I don't want to get my Bobcats fantasy world blown out of proportion, reality is enough of a letdown. I'd draft well \and not take on big contracts outside of All-Stars. That's simplistic but realistic for this team. We are a shitty market so we will not be attracting multiple free agent All-Stars.
"Let 'em Work, Let 'em Live"
if i was a wiz fan i wouldnt be a on a bobcats forum, and bobcats fans dont hate on kwame? not when im at the games everybody shows frustration when he cant finish, theres a difference between fan & groupie
Last edited by skratch; 03-07-2011 at 10:14 PM.
I'll help you since research doesn't seem to be your thing...
Kwame is averaging 8 points and 8 rebounds under Silas with 6 double doubles and multiple rebounding games in the 13-18 range. Now take a look around the league. How many centers are averaging numbers that are much different than that?
* There are only 20 players in the entire league that are averaging 8 or more rebounds a game and according to NBA.com, only 7 of them are centers.
* Of those 7 centers (Howard, Gasol, Horford, Chandler, Cousins and Stoudamire) what is the average salary for these players? I didn't do the research but I bet it is well in excess of 10 million per year even with guys like Cousins and Horford pulling it down.
* For the record, there 19 centers averaging over 8 points per game.
So, for a MINIMUM contract, we are getting a top 10 center in rebounding and a top 20 center in scoring...
How could that not be a great deal? And when you talk about value to the team...who would be playing center for us right now if Kwame wasn't n the roster?
And one more thing, 6 double doubles out of 31 games is an average of basically 20% or 1 out of every 5 games (not 1 out of 100).
Last edited by WAM9; 03-08-2011 at 08:48 AM.
In Cho I Trust!
Actually i did do research on kwame stats if u read previous post, and i like how you throw "Under Silas" to prove your point even better like it makes a difference, but the real stats are this kwame brown is averaging 7ppg & 6.7 Rpg, i dont care about silas stats and neither does the world hes playing more under silas then larry brown, now let me give you real research, there are 32 players in the NBA averaging 8 or more rebounds(including 3 injured players), 14 are centers (Love,(f-c),Howard, Noah, Bogut, Gasol, Okafor, Varejao, Chandler, Cousins, Stoudamire, Perkins, Scola(f-c), Camby, etc),and the average for these players are above the triple of kwames 800k salary and actually nba.com tells me that 28 centers are averaging over 8 points per game, for the minimum were getting exactly what we pay for which is the "minimum" not a top in any stat type of player, and if we didnt have kwame it would just be naejro and diaw which is how it looks when kwame is out anyway, kwame's last double was 5 games ago Correct! but hes not going to get a double double no time soon, this month will be ugly and and expect 2 more losing seasons from the bobcats, jordan is saving money with kwame but who else can u get? nobody, u know why he gets paid so low? cause no idiot will give a man 1 mil if he couldnt average top 20 in any stats, "Women lie, men lie, NUmbers Don't Lie" - Jay-z
Last edited by skratch; 03-08-2011 at 12:44 PM.
Dude. Your posts are very difficult to decipher due to the grammar and punctuation so I won't be perpetuating (that means continuing) this "debate" any further. I have no problem going back and forth with educated posters, like SWeed, who actually have a clue but this is a waste of my time (and anyone who is reading it).
I just went back and checked my numbers on NBA.com again and they are correct. I can't figure out where you are getting your numbers from but I don't really care either. You are making a really lame argument in saying that a minimum salary guy is our problem. Really?
In Cho I Trust!
Kwame Brown ranks 35th in Hollinger's Player Efficiency Ratings for centers. The top 10 are Howard, Horford, Duncan, Bynum, Nene, Al Jefferson, Noah, Lopez, Chandler, and Shaq.
Now, Hollinger's PER isn't perfect, but it takes into account how the player helps their team win. Kwame gets 7 ppg and 6.7 rpg, but how much does that help his team? How does that compare to other players getting similar minutes. How are those numbers adjusted considering his teams offensive efficiency (o-rebs, ppg) and defensive efficiency (d-rebs) and number of posessions, etc, etc. While Hollinger's PER isn't perfect, it is a good way to measure players effectiveness.
The average NBA salary is 5.84 million. Kwame, who makes 1.2 mill, is behind these centers who are making below the league average: Horford (5.4), Noah (3.1), Lopez (2.4), Shaq (1.3), Brad Miller (4.4), Javale McGee (1.6), Chris Andersen (3.9), Chuck Hayes (2.3), Hibbert (1.6), M Gasol (3.4), Speights (1.7), Robin Lopez (1.8 ), Trevor Booker (1.2), Turiaf (4.0), DeAndre Jordan (0.8 ), Jason Thompson (2.1), Anthony Tolliver (2.2), and Ilgauskas (1.3).
Next, you have to consider that some of these guys are on rookie salaries (Horford, Noah, Lopez, Hibbert, Gasol, Speights, Lopez, Jordan, Thompson) but they are all probably going to be signing (or already have) extensions because they warrant it. Kwame, is not getting an extension. Other guys (Shaq, Ilgauskas) are on veteran's minimums.
So, that leaves us to compare Kwame to guys like Booker and Tolliver (who are rookies playing well, but will be career journeymen), Brad Miller, Chris Andersen, Chuck Hayes and Ronny Turiaf.
Comparing him to those guys, I'm happy with what we're getting out of him. Are Miller, Andersen, Hayes and Turiaf better? Probably. Are they a little bit more expensive? Yes. With Kwame we're getting exactly what we pay for. He's not a bargain, he doesn't suck.
The question should be, why are we paying our starting center the minimum and expecting to win?
Last edited by CrazyCarl139; 03-08-2011 at 02:06 PM.
I think you guys are forgetting what a great deal Diop is.
I hope Harrison Barnes decides to stay one more year at UNC. I just think it would serve him better to stay another year in college and hone his basketball skills. It would mean he would be more ready to contribute once he enters the NBA. I am tired of picks spending so much frigging time on the bench. It is so much better to have him coming off a complete season where he comes closer to reaching his full potential than to prematurely enter the NBA and stunt his growth for several years.CP3 and DH12 to max deals, of course, would be ideal, if they would sign here.
I'd find someone else to fill out the 2-4 spots though. Really.
I may be a homer, but Harrison Barnes would be GREAT at the 3 spot
You all can laugh and poo poo Jimmer Fredette but the reality is that at this time he is more NBA ready than Harrison is. Potentially Harrison Barnes will be better but if we are talking about somebody who is more ready now I would take the one player you all would hate seeing in a Bobcats uniform before I would take Harrinson Barnes. At least at this time. Next season Harrison may be good enough to be the number one pick. I don't see him good enough for the lottery at this point.
I wasn't arguing PER ratings but they are, obviously, another way to compare. Kwame's average is 8/8 since Silas took over. How much would that move him up the ladder according to Hollinger? Either way, for a minimum salary guy, Kwame is producing way beyond his contract.
You are also correct that why in the world would we have a minimum salary guy as our starting center and expect to be winning.
In Cho I Trust!
I feel like you're judging Barnes off the first 10ish games of the year. Since ACC play started, He's averaged about 18 points a game. That's fantastic for conference play. In that same span, he's hit at least 4 game winning shots (most recently against FSU).
I think too many people look at the points Jimmer is putting up without realizing that he is 1) the only scoring option on that team, 2) he plays in a mid-major conference against subpar competition (other than SDSU), and 3) is far too small to play his natural position in the NBA. He really isn't that much better than Nolan Smith, if at all.
The Tar Heels get the majority of their points in the paint by force feeding Zeller and Henson. Plus Strickland, Marshall, and McDonald all get their fair share of shots. If Barnes was the only threat on offense, you'd see him score 20+ on a nightly basis. Its also no secret that UNC got hot as soon as he became more assertive on offense.
I think so many people were so quick to write him off after his slow start that they don't realize he's been playing fantastic ball for awhile now.
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