Reply With Quotethe mavs jason kidd was very different than the nets jason kidd. by that time, he was a distributor/manager and not a playmaker. that series was all about dirk offensively.Originally Posted by Catch 22
all the people (dozens) who have tried to categorize him as a career 6th man bench scoring spark in the Terry, Gordon mold carry the implication of needing a "real" PG to start.
the mavs jason kidd was very different than the nets jason kidd. by that time, he was a distributor/manager and not a playmaker. that series was all about dirk offensively.
again, waiting on full critique but i am still solidly in this camp. his illustration highlighted two non-shoot-first ball dominant pg's (rondo and kidd) and the rest were complimentary pieces of a championship team. lebron and wade did all the heavy lifting for the heat title last year and wade and shaq to a lesser extent did it in 2006 with williams. chalmers was a killer last year but it was not as a primary or even tertiary focus. fisher was certainly a complimentary piece and absolute offensive non-factor to the lakers titles. and parker would be the closest example to the type of player kemba could be, but duncan is an all-timer and ginobli is a top 20 guy also, as well as parker.
point is, kemba is a ball dominant and shot dominant pg who's main strength is not game management. there are very few (none that i can think of) who end up being champs. AI dragged the sixers there and rose may drag chicago there but kemba is no where near either of those two and no amount of work will get him to that level. even with AI, he couldn't get the ring. nba history does not bode well for this type of pg to get a ring without a far superior player on the roster like lebron, duncan etc.
I don't think anyone here is arguing that Kemba can be a 1st option on a championship team.
He's a 22 year old averaging 19/4/5 with 3 steals and scoring more efficiently than half the teams in the league. Which means most teams in the league would like to have Kemba Walker playing big minutes for them right now. Plus his intangibles are off the charts to boot.
Its crazy to me how people are going to keep riding the "Kemba can't improve" bandwagon when he's literally developed light years already right before our eyes. It was silly last year and it still is. He's going to keep getting better and better.
the fact is: Kemba Walker is the first option of a team thats currently in the top half of the league in offense, while being at least a decent defensive player to boot. Thats an all star if I've ever heard of one.
Last edited by CatNation; 11-16-2012 at 02:07 PM.
JGib23 (11-16-2012)
didn't say he can't improve, i said he will never be AI or rose. he isn't that good. that is not a slight at all, those are two very special players. i fully expect kemba will continue to improve.
in other news. ALERT ALERT: favorable cats and kemba press (from http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/...ms-players-far)
5. So far, nothing comes close to _______________.
Cavan: Andrew Bynum's hair. It's the second thing that comes up on Google after you type "Andrew B." In a distant second, I'll sip the homer Kool-Aid and post watching J.R. Smith -- eight years after entering the league -- truly figure it out. Sustainable or not, he has been a real treat to watch.
Chau: Watching second-year guards Kyrie Irving and Kemba Walker bypass the dreaded sophomore slump. Irving already had a remarkable rookie season, and his numbers have gotten better with an increase in minutes. Walker, on the other hand, might be the biggest surprise of the young season, looking like a true focal point in Charlotte's relentless attack.
McNeill: The Los Angeles Lakers. It just wouldn't be the purple and gold if they stayed out of the spotlight for more than two days. First, it was the new superteam talk, followed by the slow start and Mike Brown's firing. Now Mike D'Antoni comes in to usher in the "Seven Seconds or Showtime" era. Never a dull day in Lakerland.
Schiller: Jamal Crawford's fire-and-brimstone act. Apologies to disgruntled Blazers fans who are waiting for the inevitable fallout, Ray Allen and Nando de Colo, but is there anything more fun than this guy right now? Crawford is leaving charred cities and basketballs everywhere in his path, and it is as glorious as it is frightening.
Strauss: Was much of his career squandered in the Utah flex? I wonder that as Andrei Kirilenko runs the show in Minnesota. Ever the unassuming facilitator, he nudges an injured offense toward competence. On defense, he inhabits a different form, haunting every avenue to the basket like an angry ghost.
Wallace: The promising start by the Bobcats, who are 4-3 and riding a three-game winning streak. Sure, two of those recent victories came against the winless Wizards and depleted Timberwolves. But considering it took half a season for Charlotte to get its fourth win last season, this rapid progress leaves you as stunned as a Kemba Walker crossover.
OK now you're taking it to far...So had OKC won the championship, would you have changed your tune? A few years ago we would have said that NBA history was evidence that if your PF and Centers didn't play down low, you couldn't win a championship...and as far as AI goes, he just happened to play an overmatched team...Switch him and Kobe around in 2001 and AI has a ring...There were literally NO other scoring threat on the team...Would you not say game management skills comes with the experience of playing IMPORTANT games? Was Rondo great at managing a team his rookie season?
20 years from now, we probably won't have any more Pass-First PGs...No matter how you want to spin it, it takes DOMINANT all-stars players to win a championship...If the MKG and Kemba develop into All Stars, they'll have a cance to win...I'm curious to know...What makes you so sure that Kemba can't develop into a superstar?
Even though we say CP3 is a pass-first PG...who do the Clippers consider their CLOSER?
I think Kemba could be Stephon Marbury level PG, except with awesome intangibles instead of horrible ones
Rose would never be AI...it goes on and on...in the end...your legacy is built upon what you accomplish on the court...Kemba has enough heart to battle with the best of them...And even if he isn't as good? Who is to say that he can't lead them in 3-4 years? As long as the Bobcats manage the draft as well as OKC has...
How well did Westbrook play as a rookie? 15pts...5 assists...3 turnovers...27% from 3...40% Fg
Kemba hasn't even played 82 games yet...Let the guy develop into who he's gonna be...I love the fact that you can predict where he'll be...I'm pretty sure John Wall and Derrick Rose we're very comparable when coming out...Where are the comparisons now?
no if okc won a championship i would say (rightly) durant led okc to a championship and is the 2nd best player in the league and is setting his career up to be an all-timer.
so if AI played with 2001 shaq (best player in the game) he too would have been the 2nd best player on the team and not led his team to a championship but followed shaq to a ring.
rondo was in his second year and was the 4th best player on the team. but he was still a pass first game manager type pg. he worked his way to a starter in his second year.
i have never said kemba would not be a superstar. ginobli and harden are and they come off the bench. i agree with you that it takes more than one dominant all-star to win a championship. that is what i have been arguing the whole time. i reject the notion that you even have to have a good pg to win a ring which is exactly what you illustrated.
my issue with kemba is game management, knowing when to turn it on and off (which is exactly paul is the closer and his ability to shoot which kemba has not shown consistently), getting the ball to his players where they need it to be effective. he is improving but i still am not convinced his best role is not as a heavy minute non-starter.
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