Kemba Walker Thread Part 2

[SWedd523]

Somebody is severely underestimating the positive impact AI had in his prime. He took a team that featured a 34 year old Dikembe Mutombo, Aaron McKie, Theo Ratliff, Tyrone Hill, Aaron McKie, George Lynch, and Eric Snow to the NBA Finals. On they way they beat the Pacers (Jalen Rose averaging 21/6/5, Reggie Miller at 19/4/3, along with a young Jermaine Oneal and Al Harrington), the Raptors (Vince Carter in his prime), and the Bucks (Ray Allen, Glenn Robinson, Sam Cassell, and Tim Thomas all playing very well).


Rose has 2 first round exits and one ECF beatdown where he shot a miserable 35/23 from the field and lost in 5 games. *Not saying Rose sucks*

[Chef]

I'm kinda impressed here...we're able to have a civil debate here instead of it degenerating into personal attacks. Goes to show the quality of posters we've got, where people can analyze their thoughts without taking things too personally (for the most part), unlike most other message boards I've seen.



I can't go with you there. Is our halfcourt offense good? No. Was last year atrocious? Hell yeah. Is this year atrocious? Nope.

I think your mind has blocked out how mind-numbingly horrible our offense was last year. I will grant you that it becomes painful at times when they're struggling to get buckets, but last year was so abominable that I actually fast-forwarded through the games until I saw our score change, and then would see how we actually scored.

Both years we did struggle to score in the halfcourt, but I think the difference is last year, Silas told everyone take an open shot when you get one, without any guidance on how to get said open shot. This year, I see the symptoms of an offensive system, but everyone is moving slower because they have to think too much at this point in the season. Its a brand new offense which is going to take time to learn, but I've noticed there is a ton more passing around the perimeter, more movement off the ball, better execution of pick and rolls. Plus, Dunlap doesn't want the players to take any old open shot like Silas, he wants them to recognize their specific kill zones, so that they can make it a point to actually get to their sweet spots and increase their offensive efficiency.

I think once the sets become habit and the guys can react instead of think of what to do, the offense will pick up quite noticeably.



To clarify, are you thinking of superstars as one of a kind, Hall of Fame players, or guys who may not qualify for the Hall, but will make several all-star teams in their career?

If we're including guys on the tier right below Hall of Fame level, here are some promising examples of their first couple seasons:

5 Time All Star Reggie Miller:
10 points, 2.3 rebounds, 1.6 assists, .6 steals, 49% shooting, 22.4 minutes
16 points, 3.9 rebounds, 3.1 assists, 1.3 steals, 48% shooting, 34.3 minutes

6 Time All Star Joe Johnson:
7.5 points, 3.3 rebounds, 2.3 assists, .8 steals, 43% shooting, 25 minutes
9.8 points, 3.2 rebounds, 2.6 assists, .8 steals. 39% shooting, 27.5 minutes

4 Time All Star Tony Parker:
9.2 points, 2.6 rebounds, 4.3 assists, 1.2 steals, 42% shooting, 29.4 minutes
15.5 points, 2.6 rebounds, 5.3 assists, .9 steals, 46% shooting, 33.8 minutes

2 Time All Star Kevin Love:
11.1 points, 9.1 rebounds, 1 assist, .6 blocks, 46% shooting, 25.3 minutes
14 points, 11 rebounds, 2.3 assists, .4 blocks, 45% shooting, 28.6 minutes

Future Star Kemba Walker:
12.1 points, 3.5 rebounds, 4.4 assists, .9 steals, 37% shooting, 27.2 minutes
19 points, 3.7 rebounds, 5.1 assists, 2.9 steals, 43% shooting, 35.9 minutes

So if you're looking for an all time great, then maybe his numbers aren't what you're looking for coming out of the gate. But for these multiple time all-stars, Kemba seems to be progressing on the same trajectory.

I know its not an enticing comparison, but if Kemba turned out to be a Tony Parker type player, would everyone be satisfied? His career high seasons are 22 points, 8 assists, 3.7 rebounds, 1.2 steals. They are both extremely fast guards whose offensive strengths are mid range shots and penetrating the lane, although I think Kemba is much more dynamic, and much shiftier.



I was thinking exactly of the Pistons when everyone was debating about superstars. If every position is filled with a borderline all star caliber player, or is extremely skilled in a particular area, I think it proves you can be competitive without a Hall of Famer on the roster.

But in the roster comparison above, every single Pistons player was a much better/consistent deep range shooter than who we have (Big Ben's range = 2 feet, Biz = 1 foot). Our roster is far from the Pistons, but if we have maybe 2-3 guys potentially who could ride that all-star borderline (Kemba, MKG, Mully), and can draft/sign a couple more over the next couple seasons, then why couldn't we try to build a Pistons type roster.

that's what we do here. we discuss instead of fight. that is why i like this board so much. it is also ok for "we agree to disagree" to be a final post, but we don't have to be disagreeable.

as for your paragraph on our offense. when i watch our half court offense this year, it looks pretty similar to last year. i will try to point out some specifics in the chats during the game, but since i have to watch illegal european streams while playing whack-a-mole with pop up ads, it is difficult. i think it boils down to my thought that a good point guard (whether the scoring type like kyrie ervin or the passing type like rondo) knows how to get the ball to his teammates where and when they can be effective. this to me, is kemba's biggest weakness. as i said before, if he can't get to the scoring level of westbrook or rose (and he can not match them athletically as far as finishing. he is finishing better this year but still can't attack the rim like those two or even like AI or jennings who are similar size), he will be best suited, in my opinion, for the harden type 6th man.

as far as the billups comp, i like the pistons comp as a whole, but i think kemba is very comparable right now to jennings and could see that type of career arc.

[CampNightmare8]

Joe Johnson is no where near being a hall of famer

[QC Thundercats]

Nobody said he was. I was including guys who were multiple time all stars that were not at the Hall of Fame level. But he's been an all-star 6 times, which not too many people in NBA history can claim, and if anybody says Kemba could make it to 6 times, I'd take it in a heartbeat.

[DashGlobal]

kemba is going to be a really good pg. not sure about elite though. with the right pieces around him I could see him being able to win a chip.

[spectre]

that's what we do here. we discuss instead of fight. that is why i like this board so much. it is also ok for "we agree to disagree" to be a final post, but we don't have to be disagreeable.

Amen. You guys mean a lot more to me then just little disagreements. Most of us have been around each other now for years and stuff like this is nothing in the grand scheme of things.

QC...I'm thinking of the elite players, guys who can basically put the team on their back night in night out. To expand my list I'd put Dirk, Love, Kobe, Flash & definitely AI. Not necessarily HOF guys and not multiple all stars. Players like Kemba could reach the latter.

For the record I do agree with Chef some in regards to his concerns. I just see it improving while considering the point Kemba's coming from. He's certainly not "there" but from what I've seen I have a good hope that he will get there.

[CatNation]

Somebody is severely underestimating the positive impact AI had in his prime. He took a team that featured a 34 year old Dikembe Mutombo, Aaron McKie, Theo Ratliff, Tyrone Hill, Aaron McKie, George Lynch, and Eric Snow to the NBA Finals. On they way they beat the Pacers (Jalen Rose averaging 21/6/5, Reggie Miller at 19/4/3, along with a young Jermaine Oneal and Al Harrington), the Raptors (Vince Carter in his prime), and the Bucks (Ray Allen, Glenn Robinson, Sam Cassell, and Tim Thomas all playing very well).


Rose has 2 first round exits and one ECF beatdown where he shot a miserable 35/23 from the field and lost in 5 games. *Not saying Rose sucks*

Sure wouldn't mind having Lynch, Hill, Ratliff, and Mutombo on our team. Wouldn't be so damn soft inside

[Zoolander]

i am more interested in our half court only stats. we are doing fine as a running team but anytime the game slows down we can't score at all. there is no contradiction in what i said. yes our players are not very good but they aren't failing to score because they are missing easy/good shots. in the half court we don't even get good shots. we have very little game management in the half court by both of our pg's. the players are still pro's and can make good shots but our offense does not get them the ball where they need it to be effective. thus, our half court offense is dysfunctional.

They only have one consistent outside shooter (Gordon) and one consistent low post scorer (Haywood). The others are mostly just slashers. They really don't have a guy that can go ISO which is what most of the nba is now, draw double teams and kick out and around to open guys. Until they get that they will be a poor half court team....

Or they can get a clue about how to perform an effective pick and roll. They try, but I smh every time I see it. It looks like a lot of there offense is to get penetration for their guards, but when that gets shut down, they then go one-on-one. That hasn't been very successful.

Which is why they run like hell. At least imo...

[captaincrunk]

I'd love it if Kemba turned into a prime Tony Parker type guy, he's a champion. That would definitely not be a bust.

[Stylesg1234]

Kemba comtinues to impress...he has become much more of a scoring threat this year and teams are having to pay more attention to him..its nice to see his FG% increase from 36% last yr to 42 % this year...its a good improvement but would like to see him closer to 45%...the big difference in Kemba this year seems to be his shot selection...he has 1 of the quickest 1st steps i have seen from a PG especially a bobcats PG..but even with that quick 1st step Kemba didnt take advantage of it enough last year ...last year he took way to many jump shots and way too many 3 point shots...i will say that i am confident in Kemba's 15-20 foot pull up jumper but when it comes to 3 point shots he needs to avoid them at all costs...unless its just too good of a look to pass up...but without a doubt his FG% has improved this year bc he is taking less jump shots( the ones he does take are smarter good looks ) and less 3 point shots..his 3 point attempts are down by 1 a games from 3.4 attempts last yr to 2.3 attempts this year...he still needs to get that # down a bit more but its improvment...Kemba's strength is taking the ball to the hoop and hitting strong layups...i think for those of us who have watched the games this year thats its obvious that he is taking it to the basket at a much higher rate and it shows in his FG% and his nearly 7 point a game increase from last year...he is developing into a very nice PG for us and i think if he can begin distributing the ball a little better and increasing his assists from 5.5 a game to around 7-8 a game then he will be a complete PG and a possible future all star