Reply With QuoteChef (11-21-2012)
Lillard IS having a better rookie season than Kemba. There really isn't any way to refute that. He hit the ground running and Kemba stumbled a little bit. Oh well.Originally Posted by fan_of_a_fan
If we're basing our opinions off what little evidence we have, you could easily make an argument for wanting Lillard instead of Kemba (better physical profile, quicker adjustment to the NBA, etc). But it really doesn't matter because there's no way we could've had one or the other since they were in different draft classes.
Not sure if srs LOL
Here we go again with the ignorant selective reading. Please quote where I said that.
More selective reading. You're good at that. I said, age doesn't matter. IF MKG had stayed another year, and thus (stay with me here) entered the league as a 20 year old and still put up the same stats, it would be equally as impressive.
If MKG entered the league as a 22 year old Senior, it would be (you guessed it), just as impressive. The NBA is a completely different beast than any level of college. Being able to immediately make an impact is noteworthy no matter how old you are.
Also, please note that CAPITALIZATION doesn't help any point you're trying to make.
Chef (11-21-2012)
A) I understand that you said age doesn't matter...And I disagree with that wholeheartedly...I guess we have a different mindset...being a 22 year old rookie I would expect him to be better coached and understand the game better than a 19 year old rookie...If Wiggins comes in after his freshman year and dominates (20/8/4), I'm sorry but that to me is a lot more impressive than him coming in and dominating after his senior year at 22 and putting up those same stats...I would expect him at the age of 22 to be on par with the Durant's and Lebrons of the world...Age plays a huge factor in us determining what we believe a person's ceiling and potential might be...We expect the player to mature to a certain extent...For his body to fill out to a certain degree...If you can do this at 19, imagine when he actually hits his prime...Nobody but God would actually know what someone's true ceiling is and if he'll ever get there...
B) If you don't believe that, "Posters like Swedd believe that the fact that he didn't have to adjust to the NBA game and Kemba took a year to get it shows that he has a higher ceiling..." can you please paraphrase this:
What helps Lillard in any argument against Kemba is that he's doing it as a rookie, while Kemba needed another year to reach that level. If Kemba had played like he's doing now, last year, then he'd be considered one of the up-and-comers as well
Is that not what I said? Or am I missing something here? Are you not saying that Lillard has an advantage because he came in from the get-go? That he didn't have to adjust?
C) You bring up physical features and the fact he hit the round running from day one...But in this short sample that we have even with all those advantages...They are putting up the same stats...Lillard's two inches will not make him faster then Kemba...Lillard's 3 point shooting doesn't have much more room to improve...While Kemba does...We can bring up all these outside features that would theoretically be advantageous to Lillard, but in the end, what are they doing right now at the same age?
I understand that the NBA game is much more faster and is completely different animal...I get that...But they are both in it at this very moment doing the same thing, at the same age...We don't know if Lillard will develop a post up game like GP, and utilize his size...we don't know if the bobcats select a #1 option, would Kemba become a better point guard...I'm just saying that from what I've seen them do on the court thus far, and seeing that they are both 22 years old...I can't put one above the other...
We'll see what happens the rest of the years to come...
P.S. I TYPE IN CAPS WHEN I FEEL LIKE IT...NOT TRYING TO WIN YOUR SEAL OF APPROVAL...NOT TRYING TO MAKE YOU BELIEVE ME MORE...YOUR MULTIPLE SMUG REMARKS DON'T HELP VALIDATE YOUR POINTS EITHER
Last edited by OfficialBobcatsHD; 11-21-2012 at 06:53 PM.
which is why I say age plays a very small part. "ceiling" is all theoretical anyway because nobody knows. If you don't think players learn at different rates regardless of age then we'll just have to disagree.
Yeah still missing where that makes any mention of Kemba having a lower ceiling than Lillard.What helps Lillard in any argument against Kemba is that he's doing it as a rookie, while Kemba needed another year to reach that level. If Kemba had played like he's doing now, last year, then he'd be considered one of the up-and-comers as well
That's your prerogative Bobby BrownP.S. I TYPE IN CAPS WHEN I FEEL LIKE IT...NOT TRYING TO WIN YOUR SEAL OF APPROVAL...NOT TRYING TO MAKE YOU BELIEVE ME MORE...YOUR MULTIPLE SMUG REMARKS DON'T HELP VALIDATE YOUR POINTS EITHER
KARDIAC KEMBA
o man this game might end being the death of me on RealGM again. I don't think I can resist trolling raptors board
LOL I know it's hard, esp. since their 1st 15 pages or so is nothing but constant bitching about the "no calls" and how the league is specifically targeting them! It's also funny as hell that they're so incredulous about losing to us when they've been nothing but crap most of their entire existence.
Kemba had a great game tonight and is showing consistency...which is HUGE. The boy is keeping his poise and not making near as many "heroic" moves and it's showing in his much improved stats. What a great get at 9th overall in a supposedly weak draft!
Hope Resurrected: "I think I can bring an attitude to a team as far as, ‘All right, no matter what, we are not losing this game'." - Kemba Walker
"Its okay to be bad; just so long as you're bad ass." - Keetch
Did we not getting into this whole debate over the fact that some believe Kemba to be just a 6th man while others believe Lillard can become a star guard? Is that not saying Lillard has a higher ceiling than Kemba? Did you not say, you believe that Lillard is better than Kemba? Or am I missing something?
Yes people learn at different rates...thats not the point of this whole debate though...I used stats to show that the two are having similar performances at the same age...Unless you know for sure that Lillard will keep developing at a faster rate than Kemba, there is no inconclusive data that you can use to say he will be better (aka have a higher ceiling) then Kemba...But since you feel Lillard will be better, the burden of proof is on you to prove (with analytical data of what they've both done on te court) that Lillard will be better...but we all know you can't so people use things like (physical features, quick start as a rookie)...But all i see on the court and from the stats they have put up...is in the first 9-10 games of their 22nd year of existence on this planet...they are playing at the same level...
And about age, I've repeated numerous times but you choose to ignore it...I'm not saying that age dictates someone's ceiling since, i repeat, "Nobody but God would actually know what someone's true ceiling is and if he'll ever get there..." But age makes us, (the fans...the scouts...the analysts) judge what we think someone's ceiling is...reread my example then if you can honestly tell me that, if Wiggins putting those stats at 19 isn't more impressive than him only coming in at 22 (even though that's still impressive) with the same stats...then you fall in a very small group of people...Why do people care about the youngest to do such and such? There has been some rookies that have recorded triple doubles...But why was it emphasized that John Wall was the third youngest?
Kemba is doing it all so far this season, his offense has realy improved from last year and im keen to see him progress even further
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10 characters.
SOMEONE will pay for THIS!
I don't think I agree with that. To me MKG being 19 is WAAAYYYY more impressive (notice the caps!) than if he'd been a 4 year college player. Regardless of whether you think that playing college is any sort of help in production you can't deny that playing more years in a structured setting has to help an individual's development. We have that as proof right now vs. last year if anyone has any doubts.I said, age doesn't matter. IF MKG had stayed another year, and thus (stay with me here) entered the league as a 20 year old and still put up the same stats, it would be equally as impressive.
If MKG entered the league as a 22 year old Senior, it would be (you guessed it), just as impressive. The NBA is a completely different beast than any level of college. Being able to immediately make an impact is noteworthy no matter how old you are.
Note...I might be taking this out of context since I've not been in the conversation.
DNB's fault.
Hope Resurrected: "I think I can bring an attitude to a team as far as, ‘All right, no matter what, we are not losing this game'." - Kemba Walker
"Its okay to be bad; just so long as you're bad ass." - Keetch
Paul Silas "teaching" and the lockout forcing Kemba to basically play glorified pickup level basketball last season has encumbered him with having to spend the next couple years just trying to shed the reputation and stink of last season off himself.
so it doesn't matter that Kemba is outplaying Lillard right now and theyre the same age. First impressions are everything, even in basketball. A lot of people had negative preconceptions about Kemba, saw his first season, thought it confirmed those preconceptions so they chalked themselves up as draft gurus and essentially closed the book on Kembas career. Really hard to change something like that, people love feeling like they really nailed something.
keep chippin away Kemba, its still a long road
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