Reply With QuotePepperz (11-21-2012)
You obviously must not know what I am getting at. In order for us to get Jabari Parker in 2014 that means we would obviously have to be in the top 3 in the draft in '14. Hell, we may not even be in the top 3 this year, and for us to be in the top 3 in '14 means that the current group that we have either seriously went way downhill or suffered huge injuries. Parker is a phenomenal talent, and I would LOVE to have him, but this team would have to go way backwards in order to draft him.Originally Posted by OfficialBobcatsHD
Pepperz (11-21-2012)
Im baffled as to why people are still talking about winning too many games 9 games in when we are 5-4. Insane.
I'm pretty sure I have never stated that any of them have limited ceilings, but you can read into my posts however you wish.
What's a fact is that no matter how good you think MKG and Kemba are, they have no chance of winning by themselves. LeBron didn't win until he got Wade and Bosh, Dirk didn't win until he got Chandler playing out of his mind, MJ didn't win until he got Pippen, Grant, Rodman, etc. Durant had Westbrook, Harden, and Ibaka and they got their asses handed to them by Miami.
The simple fact is that a couple of great players won't get the job done.
Also, I have no idea where the notion that Westbrook and Harden were roundly panned on draft night. While some may have questioned the decisions, just as many people considered them to be great picks. Here are some draft grades by the big boys:
Westbrook--
NBADraft.netESPNThe team without a home had a solid draft adding one potential star in the backcourt (Westbrook) and some solid frontcourt potential. GM Sam Presti did a solid job to resist the temptatioon to add Brook Lopez and take a player with considerably more upside at the fourth pick in Russell Westbrook. It's decisions like this that define a GM, and Presti made an excellent one.DXWestbrook needs to improve offensively, but at worst he is a defensive stopper. And he could become one of the best point guards in the league down the road. I had him rated as the fourth-best prospect in the draft, right behind Rose, Beasley and Mayo.Is Westbrook enough of a playmaker to be a starting NBA point guard in time? And if not, is he big enough, and a good enough ball-handler, outside shooter and all-around scorer to start at the 2? He can surely defend well enough at either position, but considering that he might need a very particular type of lead-guard alongside him—was he worthy of being drafted fourth overall? On first glance the answer to that seems to be no, but Sam Presti might know something that we don’t
Harden--
NBADraft.netESPNThe Thunder came into the night with two open spots in their future starting lineup: shooting guard and center. So they filled them. This is a case where a team drafts for need but gets two really good values in the process. Even Vaden may make the roster.Slam (couldn't find DX)While I thought the Thunder might be able to use Ricky Rubio as a trade asset, if nothing else, it's hard to fault Sam Presti. Harden is a better fit in the backcourt with Russell Westbrook, and I think the Thunder got a terrific value pick in Mullens. On talent and upside, he was one of the most intriguing players in the draft. If coach Scott Brooks can get effort from him, the Thunder will have intriguing young talent at every position on the floor.The Thunder had a very strong first round and kind of a questionable second round. In drafting James Harden OKC does two things: they announce Russell Westbrook as their point guard of the future and add an NBA-ready talent to line up next to him. Harden was easily the best shooting guard available; he is crafty, has a high basketball IQ and a real nose for the basket. He will be an immediate help in the backcourt and with Westbrook, should make for a fun one-two punch to watch in the upcoming seasons.
We can win 20-30 games and still get top 3 pick...then again we could package two picks to move down to three...we'd mostly get the pistons pick plus our pick...Then again...we could always get lucky and get that pick..I honestly don't know who I'd want more...Parker or Wiggins...
Last edited by OfficialBobcatsHD; 11-21-2012 at 02:04 AM.
I'd like to have a draft pick this year but whatever
wiggins is easily better than parker.
We can still lose a ton of games while also developing kemba, mkg, and biz. we just need to get rid of all the solid players like sessions, gordon, haywood, ect.
Brilliant, well put together Post and basically sums up my entire reasoning in beginning this Thread, Thank You Swedd!I think too many people are getting caught up in the current situation and not looking at things objectively. Everybody is ecstatic to be sitting at 5-4 while taking advantage of some struggling teams, but let's face it. Sitting around .500 isn't what Jordan is going for and it most certainly isn't what Cho is going for. The stated goal all along was to be bad enough to amass young talent in the draft and work from there. We've done a fantastic job thus far in our ONE tank season but we're getting too far ahead of ourselves in the desperation to win. You seriously can't hold out for a couple of years if it means the possibility of being a top 5 team versus being a perennial 10-6th seed? Imagine how happy we would all be raking in 50+ wins and being a championship contender instead of simply being "better than we were".
It reminds me of fellow Gamecock students and/or fans. The team has been horrible for many years. Now that we're turning it around and becoming a powerhouse, people are forgetting the fact that we need to keep moving forward. I've seen people talking about how awesome it is to win 9 or 10 games every year, even if it means we aren't in the NT discussion, while I'm going, "Why stop there?" The goal is to win a Championship, so there is no being happy with winning 10 games a year and coming in 2nd in the East. How would Alabama and their fans feel with consistent "really good" seasons instead of consistent "they could beat NFL team" seasons?
All of that to make one simple point. Open your eyes and raise your standards. Stop being fine with good and instead hope we do whatever it takes to be great.
I think people are also so caught up in their raucous to understand the point I (and a few others) are trying to make about draft position. I've watched every game so far and when we win I don't groan or complain, I hoot and holler (and piss my girlfriend off by being too loud). I want the team to win every game they play, and relish the opportunity to talk shit to all of the people on RGM who make fun of us, but I'm not blinded by a good start to the point where I think the best thing for the viability of the franchise is anything but continuing to stockpile high draft picks.
To make a seemingly unrelated metaphor. Let's say you just graduated from high school and were offered an okay job making an average of 40K for the long run, with little chance of advancement. You could take that job and be happy with "solid", or you could delay that gratification, go to college, and have the opportunity to make much more money in the long run. So what do you do? Do you gut it out for 4 (or more) years until you get that college degree and enter the workforce at a higher level with better opportunities for advancement? Or do you stop there and take what you're given? I know what I'd do.
Now for those saying, "look at our history, we've never been able to pick a star! We wouldn't be able to do it now either!" Well, go look at the general history of the draft, or if you're lazy, look at the charts (I'll repost it for the sake of visuals). Constantly picking 8th or later leaves you a very small chance of drafting a difference maker. Drafting 4 or higher, on the other hand, does. Of course our two past top 4 picks haven't exactly become the stars we've hoped they would, but they're much closer to being an outlier than the statistical mean.
Look at how dramatically better a pick in the top 4 is in relation to the rest of the draft. Our folly has been picking too high to have any sort of real statistical chance of drafting a star. Just about every single draft produces a star in the top 4 picks, usually more. The chance of stardom for the other ~56 COMBINED is much lower.
Our history has consistently been, get a little better each year, at least we're winning some games. That has manifested itself in later picks and smaller chances to improve without making cap crippling trades.
2007--8th pick Brandan Wright (traded for Richardson). Top 4 picks were Oden, Durant, Horford, and Conley
2008--9th pick DJ Augustin. Top 4 were Rose, Beasley, Mayo, Westbrook
2009--12th pick Gerald Henderson. Top 4 were Blake, Thabeet, Harden, and Tyreke
2010--16th pick (traded for Lexy). Top 4 were Wall, Turner, Favors, Johnson
2011--9th pick Kemba Walker. Top 4 were Kyrie, Williams, Kanter, Thompson
Now look at our tank season and the results:
2012--2nd pick MKG. 8-12 picks were Terrence Ross, Andre Drummond, Austin Rivers, Meyers Leonard, Jeremy Lamb.
For a small market team like ours, we don't have the ability to pay $75+ million for a contender. We don't have the luxury of throwing big money at role players, or trading away future draft picks for older, more expensive veterans. Unfortunately, we have to do it the hard way. And that hard way is through the draft by either getting obscenely lucky with a later pick or playing the numbers and getting a high one or two. MKG may very well be the superstar we've been waiting for and Kemba may very well be the #2 we were hoping for. If so, then this whole discussion is moot. But can you really blame me if I'd rather trade 35 wins and another Gerald Henderson for the shot at giving them somebody like Cody Zeller (to just pick a name) that can really help them make some noise?
That's really about as far as I care to go in the argument because I doubt many people will read that with any sort of level-headed rationality or recognition of gray area. But for those like spectre or beagle who seem to be misunderstanding my benevolence and hopes for "the greater good", I hope I laid out my platform a little more coherently. Back to your regularly scheduled hissy fits.
2014/15 Charlotte Bobcats : Kemba - Shabazz - Andrew Wiggins - MKG - Byron Mullens (2013/14 MVP)
Mike Dunlap took a gamble. He worked this team really hard, till they were complaining about it. 4+ hour practices. If we had lost these games, he could have lost the team already.
When you see the results of your hard work, it makes you want to keep working hard. Thats what changing the culture is all about. Thats why almost every damn player that goes to San Antonio reaches their potential, even scrubs nobody really wanted like Gary Neal and Danny Green. And the Kings could probably draft 84 Jordan and mold him into a bust.
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