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[ND22]

I agree about wearing Hornets gear if we are playing New Orleans and I would not do that.

The Hornets are named after Shinn.. If they were called the Shinnets no one would want the name back.

Its still a direct association. He named the team. He was wise with his choice as he considered Charlotte's history, but that doesn't exclude the fact he was still directly involved with the Hornets name, the franchise, and its demise in Charlotte. If not for George Shinn, we aren't talking about a name change.

[JGib23]

You mentioned you do capital expenditure analysis for a living, correct? You must not be very good at it. As a business man I wouldn't expect to make money in the initial phases of a business, this is normal. MJ became majority owner of the Bobcats a few years ago and running a cash flow analysis of when he could expect to turn a profit was no doubt done. The nice thing about losses, if they were that large, is that there is a lot of beneficial tax treatment large businesses get to use to offset current and future income. So this team is not "bleeding money" right now. This team does not "need" this name change to keep operational. You're not doing us and the team some huge favor by bringing these hypothetical "incremental" fans you speak of.

No need for a personal insult but, I'm actually very good at.

Your point makes zero sense. There is nothing nice about a business sustaining a loss, the goal of a business is to make money every day, every year. You want to avoid tax liability through tax law not by incurring losses. If you do have a loss, you can use that against future tax liability but, I rather avoid the losses and avoid the tax through different means vs. A carry forward to offset future profits. Just my .02

This business is in year 10, at what point does your cash flow analysis method say it's ok to turn a profit?
MJ has owned the team for 33 months, when would you advise him it's ok to stop losing money and all the nice things that come along with it?

Bob Johnson had to cover $80 million in operating losses while he was the owner. Bob is a better business man than I will ever be and his cash flow analysis must have tighter restrictions than yours.

I didn't claim the company needed the name change to remain operational, I said they can't continue to sustain high level losses and stay in business. The Heat could trade Lebron and D-Wade for Diop, Tyrus and a few more and the Bobcats could turn a huge profit without a name change.

My point is the current situation isn't sustainable.

If the team doesn't need the "hypothetical incremental fans" why are they investigating switching names?

You should call them and tell them they can stop investigating a name change, also let them know about all the nice things that come along with losing money.

I'm sure after you school them, they will abandon any further research and investigation into rebranding.

[SWedd523]

wouldnt surprise me one bit if MJ chewed Cam out for wearin that hat

Didn't he come back out in the second half without the hat?

[Adam42R]

@Adam- great post.

Here's the crux of the issue.

The Bobcats themselves realize there is at least a good chance they can get more fans and make more money as the Charlotte Hornets than they can as the Charlotte Bobcats. As a result, they are investigating changing the name back.

You mention the 2k new season ticket holders and I think that is great that the team was able to attract 2k new STH after the worst season in NBA history.

Now let's look at the other side of the coin:
1. How many season ticket holders did they lose?
2. Are the new season ticket holders more profitable than the ones they lost?
2a. They offered season tickets for $2 per game- how many "new" season ticket holders spent $84 on an entire season of tickets with the intention of making money by selling the Lakers and Heat games?
2b. They offered buy one get one free season tickets.

What we really need to know is what is the net effect on attendance?
Has this influx of new season ticket holders made any impact on the gate?
Has having the #2 overall pick and rookie of the month and already matching last years win total made more people come to Bobcats games?

The answer is pretty much NO

2012 attendance for the worst team in NBA history = 14,757
2013 attendance with 2,000 new STH and an arena full of Knicks fans 14,978

So all of that momentum of a great up and coming team, giving away free tickets to everyone in attendance because Kemba Walker hit a 3 pointer in the 4th quarter of a game, selling $2 season tickets and buy one get one free tickets has resulted in a net gain of 221 fans per night.

Do you think that's a sustainable business model?

It's really simple- the Bobcats are investigating a name change because they need to know if they can improve attendance and revenue because their other efforts haven't yielded great results.

The answer

I appreciate that you find it a great post but I fear you aren't responding to it. My primary question is "why does it need to change" - ergo "what are you trying to fix?" to which I have not heard an answer.

As for your numbers, 14,978 is average attendance through 17 games (11 home/6 road), it is NOT the attendance of the NYK game and being there, I can assure there were not 4,000+ empty seats. Actual attendance for that game was 18,097.

As I have said before, according to Higgins via Bonnell, season ticket sales were up 2,000 over previous year w/ 80% retention of previous year season ticket holders. I do not recall if that was record highs or just above average highs for both but even in the lesser case, it's hardly a sign that things need "fixing." As for the $2 tickets; as we were explained, these are not normal season tickets - they are tickets to every game but they do not carry any of the benefits afforded season ticket holders - I am not even sure they are included in the season ticket sales numbers. Considering when you would have had to pull the trigger on them, I seriously doubt they account for much of overall sales.

I think we'll have to respectfully disagree if we cannot agree on the principals that

1. nothing is broken
2. there is a growing season ticket fanbase for the Bobcats
3. there is not a majority that is waiting (either via merchandise or ticket sales) for the name to change
4. there is absolutely no guarantee that a name change would change anything for the long term health of the franchise (you and I can assume anything but there is zero guarantee)
5. that (if we brought bak the name) we are not bringing back any Hornets identity that was associated w/ the team that began in Charlotte in the 80s - just the name of it

[JGib23]

I don't get the harping about them offering buy one get one free? They've done that before. Buy one season ticket get your second one free. The only difference now is they moved it to another season. You're still getting a one seat "free" either way you slice it. JGib you're a real sucker for marketing ploys aren't you?

How am I sucker for marketing ploys? I'm pointing out that despite an incredible job this offseason by the marketing group, the season ticket group and the GM and all the great things that everyone is excited about and bragging about it has not effected attendance very much.

Basically, despite selling 2,000 new season tickets it has only netted an additional 221 fans per night through 11 home games.

So apparently the team lost nearly as many season ticket holders as they gained or the casual fan is not attending games this season because the attendance hasn't seen a bump.

[JGib23]

Adam, we will agree to disagree.

The attendance I quoted is average Home attendance this season- it does not take into account any away games. If the Knicks game had 18k, that means it raised the average. ( I'm sure I don't have to explain to you what average attendance means).

http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance

Higgins did not say season ticket sales were up over last season. Higgins said they sold 2,000 new season tickets. That's not the same thing as saying ticket sales are up 2k over last seasons total.

For example let's assume the following:
2011-2012 season the Bobcats had 10,000 season ticket holders and retained 80% of them going into the next season ( as you stated)
2012-2013 season- the Bobcats renewed 80% of the previous years season tickets which equals 8,000. Additionally, the team sold 2,000 new season tickets.

So what does that mean?
2011-12 season the team had 10,000 STH
2012-13 season the team still has 10,000 STH for a net gain of zero.

Of course the $2 seats count as a season ticket. Just because you don't get the extra benefits doesn't mean you aren't a season ticket holder.

As to your 5 points.
1. Yes something is broke. If everything was ok the team wouldn't even consider rebranding.
2. As I proved earlier, that is debatable.. If you have $100 in your wallet, lose 50 dollars at lunch and them find a different 50 dollars on the way home- has your money grown ? No
3. Again, not sure how you can make that assumption
4. We agree on that, nothing is a 100% certainty.
5. That's irrelevant to me. I could care less about who owns the franchise records in any stat.

So far the team is avg'ing 221 more fans per night than they were last season( not 2,000). I think we have higher potential than that.

[JGib23]

Not directed at anyone in particular.

[Mustachio]

The truth of the matter in my opinion is this. Its inevitable. We will be the Hornets, its just a matter of when. The passion on the side of the Hornets name change far outweighs any passion a fan of the Bobcats name has. And it far outweighs the number of fans who will leave if the name isn't Bobcats anymore. For every 1 person that says I'm leaving this team if its not the Bobcats (there isn't one single person in the tri-state area that would do that but for argument sake) the team will add 10 more fans. Fans of the Bobcats though few can be called anything but bandwagon jumpers. So I can't imagine any scenario where that happens, people selling season tickets because the team wants to make their tickets more valuable?. if you have season tickets for a 7-59 season and get rid of them because of a name switch... I don't know who that person is. Not to mention the fact that no one else will have the name Bobcats... so it will (and will almost have to be) used as a throwback on occasion. That concession will be more than enough to appease any fan of the Bobcats who gets butthurt over a name change.

So in summary, team stands to make more money, team can't possibly lose more fans than it gains, and the local paper is obviously in the tank for the name Hornets... its a no lose situation for Jordan.

[SWedd523]

Bring back the Buzz!!!


























just kidding, I don't give a fuck. Speaking of, thoughts on setting up a public poll regarding the positions on the possible name change. 1) I want the Bobcats 2) I want the Hornets 3) IDGAF

?

[dnbman]

Bring Back the Lulz!