Hope Resurrected: "I think I can bring an attitude to a team as far as, ‘All right, no matter what, we are not losing this game'." - Kemba Walker
"Its okay to be bad; just so long as you're bad ass." - Keetch
"I don't care if he uses a sophisticated pulley and tackle system to get his shot off if the bitch goes in."-Mustachio
No, but seriously, like I said, I've got no problem with you, I like your passion (although the Hendo love is getting kind of uncomfortable haha), but there is a reason why everyone always seems to be on the other side of a debate from you. Having your own opinion on things is completely fine and acceptable, and surprisingly, I do find myself agreeing with you on some of your basic opinions in and of themselves. No matter what opinion a person holds, as long as they can back it up or at least explain it clearly, then you will find most people won't object so strongly.
The problem comes in your analysis of a situation and how you apply things to fit your argument. You're supposed to take solid, hard facts, and formulate your opinion around that. What you do is make a hard, unmoving opinion, and bend and twist facts until they fit into your argument. Thats what we all take issue with, and makes the debate unfair and illogical. That and your unwillingness to accept one of your claims being wrong despite rock solid proof. Its ok to say, "good point, I didn't see it that way before, but I can see where I may have been wrong."
But thats what we're here for, to help you with your analytical side, so that you can learn to debate better without your arguments being all over the place and seemingly changing its criteria by the minute. Because it does.
On to the debate!
You claim that the 3 Minnesota guards scored 40+ points, and mostly on Kemba. Ridnour had 22 points, Rubio had 14, and Barea had 19 for a total of 55 points. A lot of points from them for sure. As usual, Rubio of course started at PG for the Wolves. But wait, whats this? Ridnour actually started at SG for the Wolves?? Whoa. Which means he was matched up with..... yep, you guessed it, our SG, Mr. Hendo himself. So how is it that Rubio's points and Ridnour's points both count against Kemba and not Hendo. Did Dunlap assign both players to Kemba at once? Horrible coaching (sarcasm of course).
Lets break down the minutes to further clarify. Ridnour played 41 minutes, Rubio 29 minutes, and Barea 32 minutes. A total of 102 minutes. Kemba played 37 minutes, not 102. So there were 65 total minutes played by those 3 guards when they were not guarded by Kemba. That is a almost twice the amount of minutes they played while Kemba was not on the floor. So you're saying that all 3 guards scored 40+ points in 37 minutes of play, while only scoring 15 or less total points in 65 minutes? See how it doesn't work?
And if they scored all those points in the 37 minutes Kemba was on the floor, then how is he supposed to guard 3 players at once. Its impossible, don't even try to argue against it, just accept it as against the laws of nature and physics. There are only 48 total minutes for the PG position per game, Kemba was only in there for 37, so there was 11 minutes Kemba didn't guard any of them. And there were 54 minutes where at least two of those guards were on the floor together and had to be guarded by the SG (Hendooo, Gordon, or Sessions). Kemba wasn't guarding all 3.
Sessions played 34 minutes, Gordon played 30 minutes, and Hendo played 32 minutes. Since Rubio was the starting point on the floor, then we can assume that Kemba was guarding him the bulk of the time, and guess what, he only scored 14, not "OMG 40 POINTZ, ALL ON KEMBAAAAHHH." Even if he only guarded Rubio lets say 25 minutes, then there was only 12 minutes left of Kemba guarding somebody else. If it was Ridnour, then 41 - 12 = 29 minutes he was guarded by a different Bobcat guard. And barely any of guarding Barea. So they in fact were torching some combination of Sessions, Gordon, and Hendo (but of course you'll say Hendo held them to 0, and it was all on Sess and Gordo)
Your statement included Calderon in the group that had career scoring nights against Kemba, scoring damn near 40 points. But when I showed you the evidence that, no, he did not, and in fact he only scored 7, 15, 17, and 11, then you change your argument from scoring to efficiency? From "ok not a career night, but he was really efficient?" Very disingenuous and hurts your credibility. Your point was proven wrong, you can't change it to suddenly include something else in your argument. And even so, claiming that Calderon was really efficient doesn't actually prove anything for your argument either, as Calderon is known as a great passing, high percentage shooter, which makes him, you guessed it, a very efficient player. Thats why he's started in the NBA for near a decade and keeps getting big contracts, because he is very efficient. In his 28 games in Detroit, he shot 53% from the field and 52% from 3! He is just a damn efficient player, and for him to only hit his averages to you means Kemba got smoked? No, it means you're trying to streeeetch it to somehow fit into your argument, but its just wrong, again. You can't fight facts for long, its a losing battle.
Then saying Biz getting abused required help D, which excuses any points scored against Hendo, but that same help D from Kemba doesn't excuse his points against? Can't have it both ways. And Bynum getting to the bucket is not a surprise, the only reason his undersized self is in the NBA is because he's quick and athletic as hell, and he has to get to the rim to score. Hell, Hendo got blown by from Stuckey and Knight, its what happens in this era of no hand checking. You can't say its a weakness in one player but excuse it for another. And by mentioning pick and rolls, that actually goes back to my original point that we had the worst defending big men for pick and rolls, so they were actually at fault for a lot of those scores.
And with Kemba outscoring all these guys by a mile, does that mean he's a better defender than all them? And Felton killing those other guys more than Kemba, is he then better than them too? And I'd say he's better than Curry, Lawson, Wall, Hill, Nelson, Nash, Lillard, Harris, Teague, etc. PG is a hard ass position to defend, especially with the defensive rule changes and the incredible physical specimens at the position today, and the facts show that Kemba is very solid and better than a good bit of PG's in the league, and not some horrible liability.
Damn I'm....nah, never mind.
Last edited by QC Thundercats; 08-07-2013 at 03:28 AM.
the problem is that our defense was just terrible last year. dunlap's defense scheming was just not effective and ultimately it is why i think he was let go.
i think it is fair to say the kemba wasn't abused by other point guards but it is also hard to conclude that he necessarily locked them down too. with how porous our defense is/was, the opposing point guard really doesn't have to go out of his way to create/initiate an offense. basically, when the opposing teams starting unit avg'd a +32, it doesn't show anything other than we suck.
things i do notice about kemba's defense. he doesn't gamble to get his steals. he is incredibly quick and active. he does have problems as an off the ball defender. he is not an instinctive help guy, doesn't sniff out plays and generally is an at best C grade defender. he sticks near his man and follows him around, but doesn't really add anything off the ball. he is actually not a horrible low block defender when bigger guards try to take him down low. he gets stuck on picks too often and needs to work harder at fighting through them.
overall, i have many more complaints about his offense than i do his defense.
as for hendo. hendo is living off of rep on this site much more than actually being a lockdown defender. i don't consider him lockdown and haven't since his hip injury. hendo benefits more from the lack of true scoring sg's than anything. he can't guard the sf position and struggles with pg's as qc pointed out.
QC Thundercats (08-07-2013)