3.2.1. Boom! Kemba talk. (From BB thread)

[Bogg]

If you want Kemba to become or think he should be a backup PG then you are without saying that you want to get rid of him, because I'm sure that his agent wouldn't stand by that and other teams with PG problems would be salivating. The argument shouldn't be about if Kemba can be an elite PG because it's not like he was a #1 overall pick. Just be happy if he can be a borderline All-Star PG a la Mike Conley Jr, and he's on a tier for that. Not every player on the roster has to be top 5 (elite) at their position. If that's the case, then the other players/positions besides Kemba have much more ground to make up than him, and that's where the focus of improvements should be at.

I said that he could win a sixth man of the year award, how is that advocating for his departure? He's not a max-contract, franchise-type guy, so as long as you pay him properly his agent isn't going to care as long as Kemba's okay with it. It all depends on who they bring in going forward and whether they need his scoring in the starting lineup or if staggering his minutes to balance the scoring the team has makes sense. If in a few years they have two 20+ppg scorers in the starting lineup with MKG also chipping in in the mid-teens, it would make sense to bring in someone who's more a defensive game-manager so that you can make better use of Kemba's scoring when the starters get winded. It's been done multiple times around the league, and it's typically what leads to guys winning awards.

[fan_of_a_fan]

Defensive game-manager? Kemba is quickly emerging as one of the better defensive PGs in the NBA with his on-ball pressure. Our defense immediately takes a hit when he comes out of the game. You talking about Kemba as if he's a one-trick pony. He's an intangibles guy, meaning that he does a little bit of everything. He's not even that great of a scorer to be considered instant offense as a 6th man off the bench. It's just disrespectful. What inside of his 17 points, 6 assist, 4 rebounds, and 2 steals per game in his 2nd year make you think that he's not qualified to be a starter in this league? Chris Paul is probably the best PG over the past decade, and the only thing seperating Kemba from him statistically is 3 assist. Let that sink in. Nobody's even mentioned paying Kemba max contract money. He'll likely receive something along the line of 4 years/$35-40 million. That's second tier PG money, and so far he's fitting the bill

[Chef]

Why do we have a thread criticizing our best player who's only in the beginning of his 2nd season with a new head coach? This is laughably ludicrous. Chef must have an agenda to get rid of Kemba. Otherwise, this makes no damn sense. Keep talking about BPA but the best players & consensus top 3 in the next 3 draft classes aren't even PGs. WTF!!!

yes, because cho directly consults with me on personnel moves. i am sorry i hurt your feelings. i will no longer criticize the best player on a sub-500 non-playoff team.

[Chef]

I said that he could win a sixth man of the year award, how is that advocating for his departure? He's not a max-contract, franchise-type guy, so as long as you pay him properly his agent isn't going to care as long as Kemba's okay with it. It all depends on who they bring in going forward and whether they need his scoring in the starting lineup or if staggering his minutes to balance the scoring the team has makes sense. If in a few years they have two 20+ppg scorers in the starting lineup with MKG also chipping in in the mid-teens, it would make sense to bring in someone who's more a defensive game-manager so that you can make better use of Kemba's scoring when the starters get winded. It's been done multiple times around the league, and it's typically what leads to guys winning awards.

i tried to warn you.

[Chef]

What inside of his 17 points, 6 assist, 4 rebounds, and 2 steals per game in his 2nd year make you think that he's not qualified to be a starter in this league? Chris Paul is probably the best PG over the past decade, and the only thing seperating Kemba from him statistically is 3 assist. Let that sink in.

now how could you possibly argue with that?

[spectre]

The argument was never about whether or not the Bobcats should get rid of Kemba, so I don't know where that came from. The question of him becoming an elite point guard came up, and I pointed out that he has to make some serious adjustments to his game before he gets there. I also mentioned that, long-term, he may have more success as a high-minute sixth man than trying to become a distributor in a supporting role to better offensive players (which this team badly needs). The reason we're discussing him and not the current collection of big-man-by-committee is because Kemba actually has a shot at being a meaningful player on a winning Bobcats squad, unlike a Brendan Haywood or Hakim Warrick. There's no compelling conversation to have about bench scrubs, and everyone agrees that the collection of big men needs a serious overhaul, but when it comes to guys who could contribute deep into the playoffs, it's a worthy discussion to have.

Why is it elite point guard or 6th man? Also I'm curious on why...since there's not one shred of evidence...that he couldn't play with stars? If you add a couple of 20 ppg players then they'll most likely be able to create a few shots for themselves, so why do we need a pure distributor at the PG slot in that case?

You guys are throwing out opinions on conjecture. Kemba is showing that he can be a piece to work with...NOT a piece to build around. Since no one is saying that he is I don't understand the debate here?

BTW, fan wasn't directing the "get rid of Kemba" to you Bogg.

[Chef]

Why is it elite point guard or 6th man? Also I'm curious on why...since there's not one shred of evidence...that he couldn't play with stars? If you add a couple of 20 ppg players then they'll most likely be able to create a few shots for themselves, so why do we need a pure distributor at the PG slot in that case?

You guys are throwing out opinions on conjecture. Kemba is showing that he can be a piece to work with...NOT a piece to build around. Since no one is saying that he is I don't understand the debate here?

we did just have this gem posted.

What inside of his 17 points, 6 assist, 4 rebounds, and 2 steals per game in his 2nd year make you think that he's not qualified to be a starter in this league? Chris Paul is probably the best PG over the past decade, and the only thing seperating Kemba from him statistically is 3 assist. Let that sink in.

but, overall, i agree with you. i get lumped in with kemba-hating just because i have more of a wait and see attitude. i was also one of the folks trying to tamper (read as hating at the time) playoff expectations 2 weeks ago. bogg's opinion is every bit as valid (and non-haterish) as kemba-homers. right now it is very difficult to project kemba going forward because he absolutely is not nor will he ever be (in my opinion) a top 7 point guard nor will he be a top 5 scorer ie he is not a superstar. that means there is real significance in debating what exactly he would look like with a much better cast around him.

there are also folks on here who have said that hendo is a multiple all-star. there were people that were absolutely sure the DJ was the next pg during his 1st and 2nd years. there were people who thought walter hermann was a key piece. there is a long storied history of folks on the planet exhibiting home town opinions.

[Bogg]

Why is it elite point guard or 6th man? Also I'm curious on why...since there's not one shred of evidence...that he couldn't play with stars? If you add a couple of 20 ppg players then they'll most likely be able to create a few shots for themselves, so why do we need a pure distributor at the PG slot in that case?

Because there are only so many shots to go around, and if you stagger guys' minutes at the start of the game you can turn that end-of-the-first/start-of-the-second quarter from a slow part of the game into one of the teams' strong points, where they extend a lead or make up a deficit. I mean, this isn't a new concept: Lamar Odom came off the bench for the likes of Vlad Rad and Trevor Ariza when the Lakers were in the Finals, Manu came off the bench for the Spurs when they were winning championships, Terry came of the bench for the Mavs when they won a title, and Harden came off the bench for the Thunder last year. "Starting five" doesn't necessarily mean your five best players, and it can be detrimental at times to have it that way. If Charlotte had two other 20+ppg scorers in the starting lineup and MKG doing his utility guy thing kicking in around 15, you're wasting offensive ability by matching up Kemba's minutes with those guys. It's not criticism of Kemba, it's a discussion of strategy.

[spectre]

Chef he did say "statistically" but I agree the insinuation was there.

Bogg I'm of the mind that unless you have one true alpha dog you have to have scorers at all positions. Again, who's to say Kemba takes the shots he does not because he's so "score first" minded but instead because he HAS to?

His passing has improved significantly and he'd also be flirting with 8-10 assists every game if he had the talent around him to finish.

I don't know what Kemba will ultimately become...but I sure know that what he's shown to date isn't screaming "6th man". I again reference Felton, one who a LOT of people tried to pidgeonhole as a 6th man scorer/SG off the bench type for the whole time we had him. Suddenly thrust onto a team with talent and he's back in the conversation for top 10 PG.

You guys just don't have the evidence to support your suppositions. What I "have" is that Kemba can play pretty well even during adversity...something we haven't been able to say about many other Bobcats since our duration. I find it kind of comical that his play/future role is such a matter of concern right now. I'd put like 6-8 more important things ahead of this easily.

[Bogg]

First off, let's stop framing the argument as though I said that Kemba's not good enough to be a starter, that he can't play with other scorers, or that he needs to spend less time shooting and more time forcing the ball in to Haywood and Biz. If I said that I thought Kemba had the talent to be as good as James Harden or Manu people would be cheering me on, but when I describe him filling the exact same role it's somehow "disrespectful"? What I said was that IF they got a real number one option and a sidekick, which is what they need to be real contenders, the team should consider spacing the players minutes to get the most out of the team. Nothing about Manu Gonobili screamed bench player, and Jason Terry's a better player than Deshawn Stevenson, but both those guys helped their team the most by being the first guy off the bench.