Quote Originally Posted by Chef View Post
by their very nature, criminals will find a way. making it harder only serves to limit access to non-criminals, which also flies in the face of the 2ndA. it also is exactly what the statists want. a slow erosion of the 2A so that eventually an all out confiscation can happen. it strikes me as odd that the one sure way to make sure hundreds of unarmed citizens are not massacred is to allow those that wish to carry to carry, but people continue to want to create a fantasy land where the gov't protects us all the time, on the spot so that we don't need to do it ourselves.

this is not to sound obtuse or like i am trying to end an argument, but i could give a hairy rat's ass what the rest of the "civilized" world does with gun control. the fact of the matter is that in all of those countries the gov't could seize total control in less than a few days if it wanted to because the populace has chosen to disarm themselves and make it illegal to arm themselves.

Okay, so........conspiracy theories aside.......I have no problem with legal ownership/carry of guns, and that's not what's being debated. The point is, the argument that criminals will always find easy access to firearms falls apart quickly when you realize that there are other countries that both allow legal gun ownership and have found ways to reduce the access that criminals have to guns. There's a reasonable middle ground between "gas chambers" and letting manufacturers dictate national policy.