Gun Control

[Chef]

Nobody's taking away your guns. You're making up the argument you want to have instead actually responding. Unless, of course, you think that any law regarding weapons at all is unconstitutional, including placing restrictions on convicted felons.

The reality is that unless the "gun rights lobby" helps to come up with some intelligent laws to help curb violent crime, and not just saying that everyone should buy more guns, they're more likely to wind up with ineffectual laws that restrict the wrong people and don't accomplish the intended goal.

laws don't curb violence

[Bogg]

laws don't curb violence

...but disarming criminals does. You know how Spectre pointed out that it's difficult to conduct a large-scale grow operation in this country because of the law enforcement efforts against it, and as a result large quantities of drugs are grown or manufactured in Central and South America because of lax laws or law enforcement? Well, there's a reason that gangs who need large quantities of weapons have been known to purchase them here and smuggle them out of the country.

[Mustachio]

I started this thread, forgot about it, and then come back to see you guys tried to burn down Ziggy's website. Let me jump in with my .02 cents.

First to GhostKat, I realize you are trolling pretty hard here, but why did you post that Penn and Teller video that eloquently destroys your 2ndA views?

Now to anyone arguing gun control. Just stop. Its over, it was over before it began. It's an impossible task, like tossing a solo cup of water on a house fire. Guns are here, there is no going back. Left leaning ilk often like to think they can control, but its just impossible without infringing human rights. You can either be free or safe, not both.


But let me (or rather science) just end this debate once and for all time. -

Right now, not in 20 years science fiction style, right freaking now, I can buy a 3D printer and in my basement/3rd bedroom/kitchen make a working automatic AR-15. Do you understand this? The implications? Gun control is an impossibility when I can imagine a gun and have one appear in my living room. A completely untraceable, perfectly working, automatic weapon at my fingertips just from the idea popping into my head. You can't control that.

If you are arguing for gun control, you are a dinosaur.

[SWedd523]

That printable gun thing is a bit of a misnomer. They have been working on them for awhile now, but most testing (at least as far as I have seen) has proven to be wholly unreliable. The most successful test (again ASAIK) was a few rounds before totally destroying itself due to recoil stress.

And those 3D printers are the future for everything, not just guns. Ive seen concepts of them making all sorts of stuff from home building materials to human organs. But I have to imagine a 3D printer capable of making gun parts would be prohibitively expensive. You'd likely be better off buying a "real" metal version.

[Mustachio]

That printable gun thing is a bit of a misnomer. They have been working on them for awhile now, but most testing (at least as far as I have seen) has proven to be wholly unreliable. The most successful test (again ASAIK) was a few rounds before totally destroying itself due to recoil stress.

And those 3D printers are the future for everything, not just guns. Ive seen concepts of them making all sorts of stuff from home building materials to human organs. But I have to imagine a 3D printer capable of making gun parts would be prohibitively expensive. You'd likely be better off buying a "real" metal version.

even if that were true, its on the horizon and therefore gun control debate is over.

BUT, they are now producing plastic lowers that can successfully fire off 600 rounds without ftf or fte. Its here now.

Yes it is right now prohibitively expensive for some, but that wont last forever. And you don't have to own a 3D printer so much as borrow it or have some one make it for you. The point is, guns are here and going to be more prevalent and untraceable in the near future so gun control is now as mythical as a unicorn.

[Mustachio]

3D gun printing/gun control documentary I think everyone interested in this topic should watch.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DconsfGsXyA

[SWedd523]

even if that were true, its on the horizon and therefore gun control debate is over.

I wasn't disagreeing with you. Remember I said it's the future in all sorts of fields, not just firearms. But I disagree that the debate is over. The liberals who prefer a socialized nanny state will never give up the debate because its clear that the 2nd is the one who protects evey other right and freedom. Until they find a way to take that, they won't be able to complete their goals.

BUT, they are now producing plastic lowers that can successfully fire off 600 rounds without ftf or fte. Its here now

sure they are. But that's a bit different than completely printed components. Most guns these days have as much Tupperware as metal anyway.

Yes it is right now prohibitively expensive for some, but that wont last forever. And you don't have to own a 3D printer so much as borrow it or have some one make it for you. The point is, guns are here and going to be more prevalent and untraceable in the near future so gun control is now as mythical as a unicorn.

Again, not disagreeing with you. I've said as much.

[Mustachio]

I wasn't disagreeing with you. Remember I said it's the future in all sorts of fields, not just firearms. But I disagree that the debate is over. The liberals who prefer a socialized nanny state will never give up the debate because its clear that the 2nd is the one who protects evey other right and freedom. Until they find a way to take that, they won't be able to complete their goals.

sure they are. But that's a bit different than completely printed components. Most guns these days have as much Tupperware as metal anyway.


Again, not disagreeing with you. I've said as much.

I know you don't disagree, I have 13 pages behind me making your stance on guns clear haha.


But gun control nuts need to understand that they are so far behind on this it isn't funny. They are trying to get mental health checks, registration, limiting rounds in a magazine, and meanwhile in the not so distant future you can literally print off any weapon you want with no limitations. Its time to focus your nanny state efforts elsewhere friends. This ship has sailed.


onto the gun nerd parts swedd. I think right now it is entirely possible to print an entire gun. There are 3D printers that work in ever material almost but its just more cost effective to buy a barrel and upper offline. but really as you know the lower is the only thing you cannot sell without a ffl. So print your own lower and buy the rest and you can have a fairly cheap AR very soon.

[SWedd523]

onto the gun nerd parts swedd. I think right now it is entirely possible to print an entire gun. There are 3D printers that work in ever material almost but its just more cost effective to buy a barrel and upper offline. but really as you know the lower is the only thing you cannot sell without a ffl. So print your own lower and buy the rest and you can have a fairly cheap AR very soon.

To be fair, I'm more of a handgunner, mostly because I don't have nearly enough money to get into the AR game. Hopefully in the future when I have a steady income...... and they haven't been stupidly banned.... I'll be able to get more accustomed to their workings.

But you're right. The lower is the only part of a firearm actually considered a "gun". Unfortunately, they haven't quite been able to figure out how to work out the kinks on mitigating the stresses caused by gas pressures and recoil. Receivers take a lot of punishment and they need to ensure THOUSANDS of safe rounds send down range before it becomes widespread. I don't want to keep printing a gun every 600 rounds and I'd be especially wary of a catastrophic failure causing an injury while shooting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLlJshR6nvg

I don't say all of that to be a party pooper though! I have no doubt they'll be able to figure it out within the next 10 years or so, but I have doubts that too many people will be home brewing their guns. My guess is it gets used by Colt, S&W, and other manufacturers to offer lower cost components for those of us not able to spend $1K on a quality rifle. It's definitely going to be a very interesting thing to watch

[Mustachio]

I don't think its 10 years at all, I think more like by the end of July. That video you have was posted in December and since then they have built guns that have sent 600 rounds without failure. The pace is frightening/exciting. And I totally agree that the more practical and probably more realistic future is that it gets used by big gun manufactures to reduce cost. But I think the idea that people wouldnt want to home brew guns is off. I have a Mosin at home that I have tweaked and tuned into a completely different gun and have done it several times with different incarnations. If I could get my hands on a printer (soon) I would probably spend days home smithing.

But the point remains that gun control is useless now. Theres nothing a law can do to stop this short of banning plastic. If even one crazy person can print a gun at home then gun control is totally useless. A crazy person could do a lot of damage with 600 rounds, so why even attempt to control the law abiding citizen who could stop him?