I'm tired

[enigmaboy89]

I am losing patience in the team as well, but I made a trip from NY to attend tonights game against the Hornets. There is no reason why they cant beat the Hornets. Losing 17 straight is unacceptable, a rebuilding team at least wins sometimes.

[dav7z]

I'm tired too. I'm losing my optimistic spirit. It's beginning to be too much. This team is losing morale. We aren't even good enough for them to try this intentional tank while developing the players. We're so weak in the frontcourt compared to the rest of the NBA that the losses will come. No need to do demoralizing actions like I've been witnessing. Biyombo shouldn't be starting over Haywood. Hendo needs to get traded ASAP (I'm done with him, I've seen enough). MKG should get more touches in the post. Dunlap need to change his defensive scheme & make it more simple. Losing like this will lose the players, and the few fans that we do have like me. I'm comtemplating on taking a leave of absence from watching these games if we lose tomorrow to the Pelicans.

Six of our seven wins was with Haywood starting. And some how Haywood found his self at the end of the beanch. Just saying Haywood and Smack on the court at the same time would limit some of how bad teams abuse us inside.
Small lineups are all so killing us playing four guards and a 6.9 center just don;t get it.

[Bobcat4Ever]

I simply refuse to care anymore. I still watch the games, and keep up with the team daily, but it's just a lot easier to cope with the losses if you simply stop caring.

[CampNightmare8]

Trade Hendo

[kitch0202]

This season was always going to be about player development. However a balance needs to be struck where the players are developing within a relatively competitive, at least competent, system/framework.

Haywood needs to be on the floor. He was a vital 'anchor' for us defensively. The likes of Biz & Mullens benefitted from sharing the floor with him. It aided their development.

Currently we don't have any Bigs that our PGs can dump the ball off to in the post. Haywood, and for that matter Mullens, were decent to good in patches with their back-to-the-basket game and this helped Kemba significantly. It aided his development.

I am all for being patient. I'm all for intelligent trades such as Maggette - Gordon, where we gain additional 1st round picks. I'm all for getting on top of our cap situation so that Cho has maximum flexibility to take advantage of other franchises who will be in real trouble when the more punitive elements of the new CBA hit. I'm all for bringing in 2-3 rookies each year and them seeing decent playing time. I fully understand that these rookies need time, in terms of minutes & years, before they are going to be genuine NBA quality players. I know and support the short-term pain for long-term gain approach.

BUT there's only so much pain that I, other fans and our players can take.

As of right now we need to lift the moral of our young players and to get a win or two as a result of being able to run our offence and execute our defence. If that means Haywood starting and playing 20-25 minutes then let's do it. Biz's development will not suffer if he's playing 20-25+ minutes from the bench.. As last night showed, Haywood isn't the answer by himself, but we need to start games far better than we currently are. Last night also saw Biz not being credited for ANY field goal attempts ... in 25 minutes!

Yes we need to hold the course of developing our young players. But we also need to re-establish our systems, our culture, our competitiveness ... we need to strike a balance.

[Chef]

in all seriousness, what did you guys expect? i thought most everyone was being optimistically sarcastic earlier in the year in the "we are a playoff team" and "did you think the turnaround would be this quick" threads. i guess not. i am sad for you as this must be a depressing turn for the worst.

and for those wanting dunlap fired. so far this year we have seen that kemba has made major improvements in both shooting (more of a personal work ethic) but most importantly in game decision making (coaching) to the point that he is already nearing what i thought his ceiling would be. that is fantastic. and biz has been showing some major improvements the past month to the point that he has moved out of the bust range and could become a solid starter with continued improvement, that again is all coaching.

one more thing. those clamoring for haywood, he friggin sucks balls. i would much rather watch biz and mullens play than him. they aren't necessarily better at everything right now, but i would rather they get the minutes than him. haywood is a servicable backup center and nothing more. and since we can't trade him until july, i would bury his ass at the bottom of the bench, play diop into some kind of basketball shape and hope to move his expiring deal in feb.

[kitch0202]

I understand exactly where you're coming from with most of what you wrote Chef. I too was thinking 20-25 wins and was aware that a lot of our early wins were against depleted teams. I also don't see the point in firing Dunlap. We've only just gone over a fairly exhaustive search and he was the one chosen. He doesn't have a true NBA calibre roster, so it isn't possible to fully judge him yet.

However, to pick up your point on Haywood saying that we should "bury his arse at the bottom of the bench" I completely disagree. By no means am I saying he's a very good player, but he is an NBA quality 7 footer who knows how to play the game. As such he is an example to our young Bigs.

It is not as if the choice is to either play him OR our young Bigs. When they're all fit they can all see proper minutes. There are 98 minutes to be shared amongst the Bigs (ignoring small-ball minutes for the moment). Giving Haywood 20 plus isn't going to hamper Mullens' or Biz's development, quite the opposite. If Mully & Biz play 30 minutes each that still leaves 38 Big minutes and Haywood is well worth at least 20 of those. Players learn by coaching, by playing and by example. Like children, young players need structure and if we solely field young players then we will loose our structure. A loss of structure hurts ALL our young players.

As I said above, I'm in agreement with the direction this team is headed. I just don't see that tanking (my definition: intentionally throwing games by not fielding your strongest team) is necessary to achieve it.

We're one of the worst teams in the NBA and will be at the sharp end of the lottery no matter what we do. We lack the quality to win more than 25 games no matter how hard we try, but for goodness sake let's try! How else can you motivate players to train hard, eat right, prepare well and play hard?

[Chef]

I understand exactly where you're coming from with most of what you wrote Chef. I too was thinking 20-25 wins and was aware that a lot of our early wins were against depleted teams. I also don't see the point in firing Dunlap. We've only just gone over a fairly exhaustive search and he was the one chosen. He doesn't have a true NBA calibre roster, so it isn't possible to fully judge him yet.

However, to pick up your point on Haywood saying that we should "bury his arse at the bottom of the bench" I completely disagree. By no means am I saying he's a very good player, but he is an NBA quality 7 footer who knows how to play the game. As such he is an example to our young Bigs.

It is not as if the choice is to either play him OR our young Bigs. When they're all fit they can all see proper minutes. There are 98 minutes to be shared amongst the Bigs (ignoring small-ball minutes for the moment). Giving Haywood 20 plus isn't going to hamper Mullens' or Biz's development, quite the opposite. If Mully & Biz play 30 minutes each that still leaves 38 Big minutes and Haywood is well worth at least 20 of those. Players learn by coaching, by playing and by example. Like children, young players need structure and if we solely field young players then we will loose our structure. A loss of structure hurts ALL our young players.

As I said above, I'm in agreement with the direction this team is headed. I just don't see that tanking (my definition: intentionally throwing games by not fielding your strongest team) is necessary to achieve it.

We're one of the worst teams in the NBA and will be at the sharp end of the lottery no matter what we do. We lack the quality to win more than 25 games no matter how hard we try, but for goodness sake let's try! How else can you motivate players to train hard, eat right, prepare well and play hard?

great points and reasoning. my main point was to refute the notion that he will help us win more. he isn't very good. at his best in his prime, he was a slightly above avg center who wasn't a very good rebounder or defender. i do get that he is a good role model for the youngs, but i think he can do that with less than 20 min per game. we need to get diop into serviceable shape so a playoff team will take him as the third big who can give 10 min and get some rebounds and play competent defense.

[kitch0202]

great points and reasoning. my main point was to refute the notion that he will help us win more. he isn't very good. at his best in his prime, he was a slightly above avg center who wasn't a very good rebounder or defender. i do get that he is a good role model for the youngs, but i think he can do that with less than 20 min per game. we need to get diop into serviceable shape so a playoff team will take him as the third big who can give 10 min and get some rebounds and play competent defense.

Likewise with your points and justification thereof Chef.

I agree that Haywood isn't a role model, per-say, for our Bigs but do think that his presence on the court is a positive for our team and our Bigs. He helps our communication and organisation. He's not the answer, but he is a positive IMHO.

Agree that giving Diop minutes is good for our chances of moving his expiring for something meaningful.

28 mins for Mully, 28 for Biz, 20 for Haywood and 12 for Diop is about right to me and leaves 10 minutes for small-ball; though when TT is back it needs to look more like 26 Mully, 24 Biz, 16 TT, 16 Haywood & 8 Diop.

[spectre]

so far this year we have seen that kemba has made major improvements in both shooting (more of a personal work ethic) but most importantly in game decision making (coaching) to the point that he is already nearing what i thought his ceiling would be. that is fantastic.

A revelation!

I'm tired too. I wasn't one that predicted us to be a lot better but some of this is killing me. The defense from the bigs is just shocking how bad they are and we're starting to not see a consistent fight from the guys. Losing wears on the players even more than it does us but damn...you have to keep fighting.

Either way...in it for the long haul.