Reply With QuoteBosnian-Bobcats-Fan (03-02-2013)
Draft position is irrelevant to the particular point I was making. Where you are picked or your expectations thereof are out of a player's control, and doesn't define who you actually are as a player. Once you're in the league, you're in the league, no matter where you're picked. You can be a bust at any lottery pick, or you can become a great player anywhere afterwards in the draft, it all depends on that particular player's abilities, attitude, and work ethic.Originally Posted by CatNation
Second, we all know KG, Kobe, Jermaine, and T-Mac were pioneers in the modern age of drafting of high schoolers. Teams didn't know what to expect, and felt it was too much of a risk at that time. But put those guys into drafts in the 2000s, they're all #1 or #2 picks. So that doesn't matter either.
I'm not saying you can't be great as a teenager in the league. Player's develop at different speeds, depending on athleticism, position, situation, etc. But all I was saying is, lets take a look at those teenagers who weren't successful early on. They weren't suddenly a failure because they didn't come out like gangbusters. They still became great after a lot of hard work. Hence the actual reason for my comparison, that just because MKG's rookie year is average, why does that mean he's limited and will never become a great player? Look at these other late bloomers.
It's like if a team had Kobe, and he was only putting up 7 points, and finishing off the year with 4 straight airballs against the Jazz in a playoff game, are they gonna say, "yep, I knew it, this kid ain't cut out for the league"? No, you give them a chance to see what they can do, especially if they show flashes and have a great work ethic.
How do we know if we can bail on a player quickly? Its all about attitude and work ethic. Sean May was destined to bust because he'd rather party downtown and drink than work on getting fit and practicing his moves. Morrison wasn't cut out for it because he didn't have the mentality to handle tough pressure. He crumbled when given the chance, not just here, but in other stops as well. MKG is tough minded and lives in the gym, so I don't think we can write him off until the end of his rookie contract.
If you're saying the risk wasn't worth it at 2, then thats one thing. I don't have a problem if people have that opinion. It's just when people say that he's not going to get better based on just one year as a teenager, I think it's utterly ridiculous until you see a player attack his weaknesses and come back the next year. Case in point: Kemba. Half the posters on here were ready to move on before they had a chance to see his hard work bear fruit.
This still digresses from my particular point as well. Kobe, Crash, T-mac, and Oneal weren't starters their rookie years because they weren't ready yet. There were aspects of their game and maturity that needed some seasoning first. MKG is also not ready yet, but because our team is devoid of any other talent at the 3, he starts by default. Because he starts doesn't mean that he still doesn't need the same time and seasoning as those other players. Starting or not, minutes or not, I'm saying that they just need a chance to get some experience, work on their weaknesses in the offseason, study film, build strength, get confidence, then we can see who they really are.
Bosnian-Bobcats-Fan (03-02-2013)
I just want to chime in hear again with Harrison Barnes, he spent two years in college and he has struggled this year as well: http://www.nba.com/playerfile/harrison_barnes/
Those stats are actually worse than MKG, so if we havent drafted MKG I am pretty sure it was going to be Barnes or Robinson and both have struggled this year
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist
Kema Walker The Core, The Future...
Bizmack Biyombo
Jeffrey Taylor
Go easy on me, I'm from England, and no... I Don't love the Queen.
Thats what I'm saying though, you didn't list all the teenagers that started slow and didn't amount to anything. its an acceptable gamble to take a lower skilled project young guy with a late lottery pick or late first rounder. but like my list shows, when you pick a young guy in the top 3 its because there isn't much risk, he's ready to play at a high level now. Yeah maybe he turns into Crash, maybe he turns into Marvin Williams. I didn't like that Cho admitted in the draft doc that he was making decisions based on fit, something that goes against what he's claimed is his own philosophy. The idea that we might have passed on Beal, Drummond, Lillard because of their fits with Hendo, Bismack, or Kemba is kinda nauseating.
To say a top 3 pick shouldn't have much risk, then turn around and say its kinda nauseating we passed on Drummond makes no sense to me.
To even be arguing MKG as the wrong pick makes no sense to me because just last year we were all complaining about how much of a bust Kemba was, and this year he's better than that Lillard guy everybody is slurping.
Last years draft was a crapshoot. That was stated all along. My guess is Beal and Barnes didn't project to have the tools necessary to be a legit #1 option, Robinson was apparently redundant with what we already have, and Drummond was too much of a risk for a 6 other teams too.
Funny thing is, it could still all work out either way because McLemore looks like a taller, more athletic Beal.
Well then you keep missing the point. I'm not making direct player comparisons, or saying that he's exactly going to be like certain players. I know that there's a plethora of examples that show others have failed or succeeded who were in the same position. As simple as possible, all I am saying is that because he is starting slow, why are so many people calling him a bust and dooming him to a career as a role playing journeyman. I used the success stories to show that, yes, even if you don't have a good couple years, you can in fact become a great player. Yet we're not willing to give him a chance to adjust, learn, grow, and prove himself?
Take the teenager thing out for a second. How many rookies have struggled their first few years, then turned it around to become great once they figured it out. Yes, there are many more failures than success stories, but if you give up on every single player that doesn't produce immediately, then you'll have a terrible, revolving door franchise that can't keep talent, will miss out on many later developing players, and won't get free agents since the team will have a reputation of not taking care of their players.
Add the teenager thing back in - it is a huge adjustment in playing against average athletes who aren't that skilled in high school and college, and then jumping to the best athletes in the world who train professionally to earn a living. Then there's the lifestyle adjustment, as they haven't been on their own as long. Some people have great families to fall back on, MKG may have a tougher home situation to adjust to as he lost his father figure just recently, who had been taking care of him since his father died.
You can't judge how good a cake is until it is done baking, and all the frosting is added. Won't you wait for the MKG cake? We just put it in the oven.
adam187 (03-03-2013)
Maybe, but I'm wary cause it seems like everything this team bakes ends up tasting nasty in the end
except Kemba. He's delicious. most of the time anyway, sometimes still gross. like angelfood cake
Last edited by CatNation; 03-03-2013 at 11:00 AM.
Mclemore could pull this whole group toghter. See i was the op and i never said MKG was a bad pick or a bust its to early to tell . Im simply saying Taylor considering draft positions has had a much better year . Taylor has passed most if not all fans coaches and managemnts expections of him . Where MKG in somes mind, might be a slight disapointment. Confidence is his main problem ,He defers way to much on a bad team . And he thinks ever time he shoots that bad looking shot of his. That shot went in more in college because he was playing not thinking.
Thanks Ammofan!
That's true, but a second round pick has few expectations to meet where as a second overall pick is expected to be a franchise player. All Taylor had to do was get in the lineup regularly, and he's considered golden. MKG is going to have to a do a lot-- which I believe he will-- before people will be satisfied with picking him second.
SOMEONE will pay for THIS!
Our 2nd overall pick 6'7 235lb sf just spent an entire quarter guarded by jimmer fredette and looked like the worst player in the lineup
I would imagine even the biggest homers are starting to feel the disappointment creeping in
Tonight in the first 8 minutes is the MKG I think we'll consistently see for 30-35 minutes of a game by his third or fourth year. He was playing with confidence, the team was making their shots and so was he. But when all the wheels fell off, the same kinda happened for him. I think if we can get him in a winning environment (if that's possible) he'll be a hell of a player. 10 pts and 6 rebounds for a 19 year old is not bad, he's gonna be good. We know he'll work his ass off this offseason and I think much like Kemba in his second year he'll come back with fire, enthusiasm, and confidence. He just looks drained right now and like it's hard for him to keep going... HE'S NEVER LOST BEFORE. Winning is contagious, if this team can ever start winning I think that'll transform him. You guys get what I'm saying? I'm not worried about MKG. Remember the player he was early in the year when he was fresh and we were winning? He was the player we expected him to be, he was the best rookie in the league. Team started losing, the games piled up and I think he's just ready for the offseason honestly, do you blame him? You guys get where I'm coming from?
TheBeagle (03-04-2013)
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