Kyrie Irving and Dion Waiters are on the 3rd worst team in the league, only 6 games ahead of us. Is it their fault they're getting their butt handed to them, that they must not be that good? Same logic you used.
What about another top 10 PG, Steph Curry, along with Monta Ellis couldn't get the Warriors to the playoffs all that time, so it must mean that they're not any good? Same logic you used.
Wall and Beal? Their fault. Lillard and and Matthews, if they were any good, they'd be in the playoffs, right?
Parker's best years will be when we're rebuilding, so that's a no. Nash is on the down slope. Lawson is not appreciably better to make a trade, and I think Kemba can catch him in a year or two. Lillard is different, wouldnt say better. Kemba's better than Jennings. Rondo seems great, but he's a stat stuffer, holding out for assists at the expense of the team, only plays great when he's in a marquee game, and has an asshole personality. I wouldn't trade for him. Wall has potential, but I don't know about his mentality. He seems like a Steve Francis type with great, but empty numbers. But the jury's still out on him.
So that's only 6 definite, but he's not a top 6 PG yet. The others are about what your preferences and circumstances are, and I prefer Kemba's potential.
There is only one player in this league that truly wears an "untradeable" tag and thats Lebron James. There is no off limits player on this team. But there are 2 players that i would prefer to continue to build on with this team, Walker and MKG.. But, for the right deal... anyone can go.
" It's rare i listen to people who never been in my position, a caterpillar can't relate to what an eagle envisions"
In my view of sports, the goal is to win the championship at the level you are competing.
Of every single point guard thats been mentioned, top ten current NBA point guards and draft prospects.... who's the last one to lead his team to a ring?
Into the crevasse!
"Climb down Lemon, Climb down"
Kemba- Would not trade. I think he is getting alot better.I feel him and MKG are thefranchise.
MKG- Same as Kemba
Hendo- I like Hendo alot but if a really good trade comes in I would do it...with sadness.If he stays I would breath some relief tho.
Biz*smack- I'm seeing alot of progress from Biz (free throws getting better..etc). Yet I dont know if I want him as a starter yet.
Sessions/Pargo- I actually like both of them as backups.
McBob- Didn't really like that he came to the Bobcats at first but I have warmed up to him.
Most everyone else is tradeable.
Same here with Curry, until this year he hasn't really played 3/4 of a season. And check the record, they did not have any historically bad years. Kemba and hendo shouldn't have lead the team to the playoffs or anything, but at least give me more than 25 wins in 140 games, sheesh....What about another top 10 PG, Steph Curry, along with Monta Ellis couldn't get the Warriors to the playoffs all that time, so it must mean that they're not any good? Same logic you used.
You make some of the same absolute statements I make, so get off the high horse....We sure have a lot of cocksure people here that have a hold on everything.
Chris Paul Year 2: 17.3 pts 8.9ast 43.7 fg% and these stats on 300 less shots!One thing you keep failing to acknowledge is its Kemba's 2nd year. Not 5th, 7th, or 10th, but 2nd. You realize just about everyone is inefficient their first couple years. Go look at everyone's stats, most didn't really make their big leap to stardom until their 3rd season, if not longer. Has Kemba played his 3rd season? No. So your analysis is based on jumping to conclusions according to your feeling, and not any basis in comparing the actual stats and career arcs of these top point guards.
Steph Curry Year 2: 18.6 pts 5.8ast 48.0 fg% 100 less shots - Though he did play 74 games that season
Ty lawson Year 2: playing behind an allstar at the time in Chauncey Billups: 11.7pts 4.7 ast in 25 mpg with 50% field goal percentage
I'm not even going to go there with Year 2 stats of Derek Rose, Deron Williams or Russell Westbrook. But like i mentioned before it comes down to efficiency. Even in year 2 you can see these guys had it.
Come on, do you really think Kemba is 6'1? Check the combine measurements, he's 5'11 and 3/4Ok, and Kemba is 6'1, so how does under 6 feet apply? Chris Paul is shorter than Kemba, the difference is he gets respect from the refs at this point. With wins will come the calls.
I hope you are right but i truly doubt it. Just watch him on defense and take a drink every time he losses his man. You may not make it through the 3rd quarter.If there is a better option for us at SG, sure get him. But you're just making up stuff about his game. He's not horrible on defense, he looked like a top notch defender under Larry Brown. What you're confusing is our defensive system, which has our guys packing the paint, which causes the perimeter guys to lose their man often. And he's 6'5, normal size for a SG, with great athleticism and good length. He doesn't lack anything to contest SGs on the perimeter. With better defensive scheme and coaching, you'll see his better defense.
I stated Parker is on his down years, Nash I do not count in the top 10. He was not among the initial list I listed, I put him after those guys. Lillard is bigger, shoots better and has put up better stats in his rookie year, check the stats. Rondo, maybe he says no because Rondo excels when there are finishers around him. Wall has all world ability and since coming back from injury has shown the all around game people expected. If you can, watch some Wizards games and you will be impressed. Cho would make that deal in a heartbeat.Parker's best years will be when we're rebuilding, so that's a no. Nash is on the down slope. Lawson is not appreciably better to make a trade, and I think Kemba can catch him in a year or two. Lillard is different, wouldnt say better. Kemba's better than Jennings. Rondo seems great, but he's a stat stuffer, holding out for assists at the expense of the team, only plays great when he's in a marquee game, and has an asshole personality. I wouldn't trade for him. Wall has potential, but I don't know about his mentality. He seems like a Steve Francis type with great, but empty numbers. But the jury's still out on him.
I think Kemba is a decent player and can be a pretty good player, but his inefficiency on the offensive end will always hold him back. You just can't shoot that low of a field goal percentage and be a top 10 point guard. He handles the ball too much to be that inefficient with it, and as I have backed up with stats, the best point guards typically come in with that early. the only one as inefficient as Kemba is Westbrook, but he is a different beast altogether.So that's only 6 definite, but he's not a top 6 PG yet. The others are about what your preferences and circumstances are, and I prefer Kemba's potential.
Last edited by StitchJones; 04-12-2013 at 12:48 AM.
I don't think Marcus Smart is that good.
Hope Resurrected: "I think I can bring an attitude to a team as far as, ‘All right, no matter what, we are not losing this game'." - Kemba Walker
"Its okay to be bad; just so long as you're bad ass." - Keetch
"I don't care if he uses a sophisticated pulley and tackle system to get his shot off if the bitch goes in."-Mustachio
If you don't think roster balance matters, look how the Heat played us recently. They completely sold out to guard Kemba and Hendo, leaving the bigs unattended, since they can't do anything. You seem to be stating, "so what, it doesn't matter, just win baby," even though they have no help to take pressure off.
If you don't think experience matters, the teams that make it deep in the playoffs are filled with veteran players and superstars that have had a chance to develop for several years. You can't catch up to the speed of the game and all its intricacies in just a couple seasons. Its like if you started learning Russian right now, are you gonna win a Russian debating contest with someone who's been learning 5 years, 7 years? Of course not, you need to build the foundation and fundamentals first, then once you have your base, you can then expand and flourish.
If you don't think coaching matters, look at the article in the Dunlap coaching thread. Dunlap, and his staff, don't have much coaching experience at the NBA level. As you can see, they are not as up on trends, and have been caught behind the 8 ball with the defensive philosophy. Plus they just installed a brand new offense this year, with young players who may not even know how to play in a general NBA system in the first place instead of the iso ball they learned in AAU and high school. You place them against veteran NBA teams that have been running a system for years, they will eat the youth and inexperienced team alive.
These are not excuses, they are the cold harsh reality of the team. Yes, in later years, these will be unacceptable as reasons, because it means either the players didn't get better, the coaching didn't adjust, or the front office failed to add talent. You're assuming we're on equal ground already with the rest of the league when we had to start over last year at ground zero. The house just got demolished, we haven't even finished rebuilding the frame before some of yall are declaring it a failure.
And being historically bad is not a rookies fault. It is because of a completely torn apart roster with a lame duck coach, filled with injuries and no veteran leadership. Lets look at this roster, shall we:
Augustin: averaging 4 points as a back of the bench sub
Biyombo: rookie, raw as a just slaughtered cow
Derrick Brown: out of the league
Carroll: out of the league
Hendo: coming off major pelvic surgery
Higgins: out of the league, never should have been in
Maggette: Mr. No Pass, who also got injured for the year early on
Jamario Moon: out of the league
Mullens: he didn't realize he was tall last year, still may not know
Najera: hustle player who broke his face
Tyrus: decided not to be a basketball player last year, got into a fight with the coach
Kemba: rookie, learning the ropes
D.J. White: out of the league until Boston had a bunch of injuries, only played 9 games
Reggie Williams: coming back from knee surgery
Look at that lineup again. So again, you're saying its Kemba and Hendo's fault they were historically bad, when that may be the worst team ever assembled? 10 of those either don't play in the league anymore or hardly play, two were rookies, and the others battled various injuries. Put a rookie Steph Curry in, and that team is still historically tragic.
What I do is state my opinion and analysis backed up by researched data and facts, and use my intimate knowledge of the game through experience and obsessive fandom. What I object to strongest on these forums is when someone makes declarative statements as if they are fact, and then state how right they are and act like nobody else knows what they are talking about (not saying this is you, but a trend I've seen a lot over time from some posters).
I'm not claiming Kemba is going to be a superstar, or Biz will be Ben Wallace, or Dunlap is a great coach. I just object to people declaring that they are nothing but replaceable parts and that they are absolutely correct, when me and you, your mama and your cousin too, have no idea yet. Nobody's right, because no one knows until they can prove it.
CP3 went from 17.3 and 8.9 to 21.1 and 11.6 in year 3, when he arrived as a superstar (and shot 43% his first 2 until jumping to 49% his 3rd)
Westbrook went from 16.1 and 8 to 21.9 and 8.2 in year 3, when he arrived as a superstar (and he shot 39% and 41% his first 2 years to 44%)
Curry went from 18.6 and 5.8 to 22.5 and 6.9 in year 4, when he is establishing himself as a star (and he shot...great like his daddy)
Rose was a superstar his second year at 20.3 and 5.9, but still made a big leap to become an MVP his 3rd year at 25 and 7.7
Wall went from 16.3 and 8 his 2nd year to now, in his 3rd year, post All-Star is averaging 20.6 and 7.8 (and improving his shooting from 41% and 42%, to about 45%)
Lawson's leap coincided with starting, even though he averaged 26 minutes, but its still a big one from 11.7 and 4.7 to 16.4 and 6.6, and playing even better in year 4.
And Parker and Nash took 5, 6, 7 years to make the leap.
Kemba's second year is 17.4 and 5.7 on 42% shooting. And you're not giving Kemba the chance to make a 3rd year leap like just about everyone else made? Thats quite unfair. His numbers are very similar, and he improved his shooting 6% points, not an insignificant improvement. And just as everyone else continued to improve each successive year, why can't Kemba also continue to improve - in scoring, shooting and assists. Like I said above, I'm not declaring myself to be right, but you can't declare yourself so sure that Kemba isn't getting better because we just don't know either way. And based on the track record of similar type players, along with his work ethic, passion and desire, I think he does improve at a high rate.
Last edited by QC Thundercats; 04-12-2013 at 05:15 PM.