Felton & Lawson - Two of a kind?

[ohara831]

This topic is more of a combo of Bobcats Talk and the NBA Draft, so I just put it here.

Something I've observed this season. It really hit home for me last night. Have you noticed that for all their good play at times, occasionally when the Cats or Heels find themselves in tight games, the PG's seem to be making flawed decisions? I mean, let me give you some examples.

Go back and look at some of the Game Threads from our tougher losses. It is late in the 4th qtr in a tight game. How often do we say "What was Ray thinking?" He hoists up an ill advised 3, or drives the lane into traffic with 7 footers and loses the ball or tosses up a shot on which he thought he would be fouled but wasn't so it is a turn over. He makes this decision too many times and it hurts us. It is as if he takes too much onto his shoulders at crunch time. He doesn't seem to just think to himself "Dribble around, move, draw the double team as I drive into the lane and kick it out to J-Rich or Crash" Too often, he feels he has to take the shot and either make it or get fouled.

Last night, I saw Ty Lawson making a few of the exact same mistakes. They had fought their way back from 28 down to within 4. With 8 minutes left, they were in the game. Then, I see Lawson make a few decisions which to me reminded me of Ray's decision making down the stretch in tight games. Turning the ball over, bad shot, driving into fthe middle with one of those giant 7 footers and getting the ball rejected. (Dude, you're only 5-11 and they are a foot taller than you)

Now, in the past I have been hard on Ray and questioned his effectiveness at the PG. I have come to believe that he can handle the position, and feel comfortable with him as our starting PG - unless we can get Derrick Rose. But when I see the similarities of both Ray and Ty in their game play, decision making and in their flaws, I am wondering if this is not something fundamental being taught or over looked at the College level. Roy Williams is a brilliant Coach, but even great ones are not perfect. (Wooden comes closest) I wonder if there is an issue in the way that they help mold the decision making of their PGs in crunch time? I mean, Ray and Ty have been his 2 main PGs in his tenure at UNC, and their play, their game, and their flaws seem to be very very similar.

[Slam]

100% agree.

Felts is best when he plays within himself and lets the game come to him rather than force the issue. I understand he is a fearce competitor and he wants to do everything he can to get the team a win, but when he is in that mind set he is no better than Crash taking on teams 1-5.

As soon as Felts starts to force the issue, you start to see the offensive fouls, the loose handles, the silly passes, the bad shot selection etc. Maybe that is why he's a better combo guard off the bench? Maybe he doesn't have it in him to hold himself back or control a game because he gets ahead of himself?

In saying that, he has shown glimpses of being a fantastic point guard with great creativity, passing, decision making and scoring (mailing going to the hole). Plus, he's still young and we all know how much of a hard worker he is and how much he cares (two traits that make me like him).

Of course, at his current rate, he's working himself into a 5 year 30 million dollar contract and if we could get him for that sort of deal I would be very happy.

[ohara831]

If we get him for $5-6 mil/yr, that would be awesome. That way, should we end up coming across another young PG who challenges him for the starting position, we are not overly invested to where the decision would be cutting our financial throats.

[spectre]

One of the main things a "combo guard" should be able to do is shoot.  He also should be able to match up against opposing SGs without being a liability...two things Felts really can't do with regularity.

Felts had 8 assists by the half last night and he did it with a lot of very good passes (one a blistering pass from the top of the key to an open Mek for the layup).  That's a point guard.

The comparison with Lawson is sound, and Williams probably does warrant some "blame" for this.  His plan is to always push the ball and force the offense, make something happen.  I think the idiot tells Felts to do that too, esp. when we're down, the other team has stepped up it's D and we're struggling.  Felton is the only player besides Boykins who can do that (and Boykins' size hurts him), so the idiot more than likely tries to take that route in desperation.

He's gotten better with "poise" during most of the game, but he does somewhat lose it in these situations.  He did play a vital role vs. the Raps the other night though...scoring 14 points in the 4th...so he does have the ability.

Maybe we should lock him in at PG for a whole season and see if he can get better at that too?

I know...crazy thought.

So far as locking Felts up contract wise I still think Vincent's future with the Bobcats will directly relate to our success or failure in getting a deal done.  If Vincent is still here I imagine he will go the same route Mek took.  If not I'd guess 6 to 7 million on average.

[MattD]

I say it every night. Felton trys to do too much. He is good, but his shooting is ish, some nights very nice, and he doesnt make good decisions on when to defer to Jrich or someone else.

But heres the thing that jumps out at me. Every night, post game interview, he always talks about how much he wants to be the leader, the floor general etc. He is forcing this way too much in my opinion. In order to be that guy you have to fill in the role that the leader plays not force the issue.

That leads me to think two things:

A. He overvalues himself and will not resign for south of 8 or 9 million (I think a high possibility)

B. He would not be happy if say we brought in a Derrick Rose or DJ Augustine who challeneges his role (and probably beats him out). Hopefully in that case we dont get into the two point guard lineup cause that sucks. Ray off the bench might hurt chemistry as I think his attitude is above.

Sooo... we need to be careful before we sign him to a damning contract which forces him to be starting pg or else he makes life unpleasant. We dont need another okafor.

Felton is a very good player, he is lightning fast and has a great layup, but his vision and decisions are not as strong, and he still trys to do too much. It will be interesting to see where management goes/how we fall in the draft.

[ohara831]

Well said, Matt. Others have said, as have I, that Ray is more deserving of about $6 mil/yr. That way, if we end up coming across a PG who beats Ray out for the starting PG spot, we are not hurting ourselves by having him come off the bench or using him for trade bait. I think if we start getting up into the $8-9 mil Contract, we are cutting our own throats. First, because we cannot pay him that much to come off the bench IF someone beats him out for the job, and second, that much $ for a middle of the road PG will not be very enticing if we wanted to trade an unhappy Ray.

I say let's see where the ping pong balls fall and where we are picking. Hey, if luck has it that we get in the top 2, we may have Rose fall in our laps. And if that happens, Ray's starting job is as good as gone half way through the season if not from Game #1. There are a lot of options which will open up depending on where we finish the yr and what happens with the ping pong balls.

[Dead_Real]

Maybe we should lock him in at PG for a whole season and see if he can get better at that too?

I know...crazy thought.

Exactly what I was thinking honestly it's crazy that he's yet to play a entire NBA season without having to worry about playing the two. With JSwish and Hammer on this squad you would think that wouldn't be an issue. I remember someone on here or realGM can't remember which brought up a very interesting scouting report that said something along the lines of under a good coach that runs a uptempo system Felton could be one of the top PG's that came out of the 05 draft but in the wrong system he just might be average. Give Felton a FULL year running the point under a coach like Larry Brown or hell even Silas and I don't doubt for a minute he wouldn't be in the running for for most improved player next season just my two cents on this topic.

[Slam]

I remember someone on here or realGM can't remember which brought up a very interesting scouting report that said something along the lines of under a good coach that runs a uptempo system Felton could be one of the top PG's that came out of the 05 draft but in the wrong system he just might be average

----------------------------

Who ever wrote that has no idea what they are talking about and is obviously biased towards European players.

[Dead_Real]

Check it out for yourself
www.draftexpress.com/profile/Raymond-Felton-5/

He brings up some valid points that I do agree that with a real coach who has a system in play and a full season gaining experience at the point like Spectre said Felts could breakout by putting up comparable stats to his 05 counter parts. He's shown the potential we all hoped for after we finally waived Jeff that he can give us double digit points and assists numbers a full year with the two above mentioned things would only make him better IMHO.

[MattD]

I still dont think that that will change the fact, that because he is the leader that they talk about, he will try to do too much. I like the trade I just threw up in the trade thoughts section.