The Trade Gerald Wallace thread

[iggypop123]

http://www.bobcatsplanet.com/vb/show...odom#post90473





I do have a suspicion Chad Ford's idea has at least as good if not better shot however, mainly because of Brown's past relationship with Sheed & Tay.

Good stuff about the Olympics...didn't know that one.

thanks for doing the search for me. im new to this site.

[110oldeast]

Naturally, Felton catches loads of chit from different posters and is scapegoated, despite the fact that he has been as clutch and DURABLE as anyone on the team since he has been here. The coaches have lived and died with him more, b/c other guys have shied from the moment and he has been willing to step up. He DEFINITELY can try to do too much, but the idea that he just bombs them out of games is beyond exaggerated. He's had poor moments (as all the Bobcats have), but has had plenty of strong moments too if one looks objectively. Since he has been here, the 82games.com clutch winning percentage he has had has been 1 or 2 on the team each year.

As to the buzzer beater jumpers (which NO pg wants to take as they KILL your fg percentage--ask Felton) oddly enough, when Wallace doesn't play, we don't have as many long buzzer beating jumpshots at the end of the shot clock b/c our offense has more of a flow and jumpshots that are setup don't get passed up. Furthermore, Dudley and Carroll pitch the ball if they don't have anything instead of helping the clock run down like Gerald can be prone to do in looking for an isolation play. And to the poster who mentioned that the Bobcats improved b/c of dropping McInnis, that was a BIG part of it. But still in that post-Touche time, they were better without Wallace.

In the 25 games after cutting Touche and putting Felton back predominantly at point they went:

13-12 overall; 13 games with Wallace and 12 without Wallace

8-4 withOUT Wallace

The offense averaged 106.8 pts; "Questionable decision maker, playmaker and offense runner" Raymond Felton averaged 9.8 assists with a 3.2/1 A/T ratio


5-8 with Wallace

The offense averaged 96.5 pts; Felton averaged 7.3 assists/game with a 2.7/1 A/T ratio.

Now folks can pin are halfcourt problems on Felton not being able to run a team if they choose. But as I continue to point out, the #1 issue has been NOT ENOUGH SHOOTING on the court to compliment the playmaker and the wrong mix of skills to form a cohesive unit. You don't run a smooth halfcourt offense without these. You don't have pgs who appear to be "great decision makers" without guys around them who can make the most fundamental and simple play in basketball. SHOOTING.

Again, this is why the offense ran better without Wallace. If he can simply perfect the corner 3 and make his offense more efficient in the jabstep, make a move or pass the ball mode, the team will be better off. The isolation play is what the poster was talking about in saying that he felt as though Wallace had to play as the man. Who knows if that is his actual psyche, but I think he was talking about style of play and domination of the ball. I think if harnessed Gerald can be as great a player for the TEAM as he is for the FANS.

[110oldeast]

PS: The reality is that Gerald's best position is PF, the position he doesn't want to play. He and his team are at the best when at this position, not SF.

[TheBeagle]

In 2006-07 season, he shot 1.7 three per game, in 2007-08 he shot 3.6 three pointers. That's why I'm saying we should trade him if we'd able to arrange a good trade. His value is high now and contract is great.

After the concussion, he said that he'll no longer be a hustle player as he was before. If he doesn't hustle, he's nothing. He's not a Kobe Bryant, he cannot depend on his jumpshots. He's shooting too much from outside, his isolation games are useless. He's a stepping stone on our offense. And yes, for exapmle if we can get Lamar Odom back in a trade, I send him to LA without thinking second time.

Fuck it, let's just cut the useless bastard and relase ourselves once and for all from this oppressive albatross known as Gerald Wallace...

[MattD]

Naturally, Felton catches loads of chit from different posters and is scapegoated, despite the fact that he has been as clutch and DURABLE as anyone on the team since he has been here. The coaches have lived and died with him more, b/c other guys have shied from the moment and he has been willing to step up. He DEFINITELY can try to do too much, but the idea that he just bombs them out of games is beyond exaggerated.

Defending myself... I never said he bombs out of games, but I cannot tell you the number of games i have watched him dribble at halfcourt until the clock runs down to 7 seconds and then he gets 5 feet within the three point line and surprise, misses. Or when Jrich gets hot and starts hitting threes and he decides its time for a drive through 4 defenders and a double clutch layup which, somehow, misses. Jrich is clutch and durable. Hes probably the most clutch on the team, think about his golden state days, versus dallas, the three pointer to win, the best buzzer beater of the year. Yet I think I saw Jrich maybe shoot 4 buzzer beaters on the year. Adam Morrison used to be able to hit ridiculous buzzer beaters. Why felton decides he should be shooting them, I dont know. It doesnt happen everytime, but it did many, way too many.

He wants to be a great pg and leader, and while I admire his drive, shooting more and taking difficult shots doesnt really help him accomplish that goal or help the team win. Can he be a good PG, definitely, but I detailed in a very long post my grievances with him, and they still stand.

[spectre]

You guys seem to forget that Bernie challenged these guys for someone to step up and be the leader...and no doubt the Idiot did the same. We have no superstar and have had no game plans, so of course the two captains felt the need to take it on their shoulders.

With Coach Brown on the scene I think all those arguments are kind of moot now. Getting a good vet PF for Crash is certainly an attractive option, but who knows what we really have until Brown has an opportunity to make them into a team?

There are other options for a PF, and if that doesn't work then next summer Crash will still be on his sweet deal and there'll be other vet PFs to be had. We're still young, entering our 5th season. No need to give up on Crash (or Felts) at this stage.

[110oldeast]

The ONLY possessions where this happened were on the end of the half possessions where the clearouts were called and designed to run the clock down and that frustrated me as well (although the within 5 ft of the 3 is exaggerated). However, that was not something that was prevalent throughout games or at the end of games. That said, I myself am not a fan of the END OF HALF long, heat check (loosen myself up for the next half) jumpshots that he takes. However, to sum up his games, seasons, or career by one play a game would be misleading. The only other shot clock buzzer beaters I see him take are not b/c he is trying to do this, but b/c the offense has stalled and he is the guy with the ball who can make a play. I doubt very seriously, he or any other pg wants the shots when they've been pitched the ball with 3 or 4 seconds left on the shot clock as they are percentage killers.


I never said J-Rich was not clutch or durable or anything close to that. I was speaking to Felton's tenure here which he has consistently been of of the most clutch and durable players year in and out. Whether getting to the line and making foul shots, making plays for him and those around him in the 4th quarters of games, he has played big down the stretch. By no means am I saying he hasn't made mistakes, but the guy has routinely been a big part of closing out close games for the Bobcats in his tenure, something he does not get enough credit for unless in a backhanded fashion.

I ALSO stand by my point about the efficiency of our offense and how he runs it when surrounded by guys who can make simple jumpshots. This makes him no different than any other pg in the league. Most pgs appear to be "better decision makers" when surrounded by guys who can complete the simple play when set up by their pg--shooting being the most significant.

Ask Steve Nash the difference when he runs the offense with 1 shooter in Bell to go along with Shaq, Amare, and Diaw vs. the offense with Bell, Barbosa, Diaw, and Stoudemire. Ask Deron Williams about Utah and his struggles early in the year that led to them seeking out Kyle Korver when they were 17-17. Ask Paul about how much easier it is to run the offense when Peja and Mo Pete are out there with West and Chandler as opposed to better overall and more gifted but less effective shooting Bonzi Wells and Julian Wright. I can go on and on here and even extend it beyond just pgs. It's about recognizing the trends and realities of the league, not just the Bobcats.

9.8 assists with a 3.2/1 A/T ratio in orchestrating an offense putting up almost 107 ppg with an 8-4 record is significantly different than 7.3 assists with a 2.7/1 A/T ratio in leading a 96.5 ppg offense with a 5-8 record.

The point is that it's not ONLY about Felton's simple playmaking abilities and decisions. Can he improve these? NO DOUBT, just like every Cat can improve facets of their game. Gerald fits into this equation as well, as if he is able to make more simple plays, it will help improve his durability and the flow of the TEAM offense. And finally, he like Felton also could benefit from having a frontcourt player who can step out of the lane and hit shots that spread the floor more, reducing the help defense in the lane.

Defending myself... I never said he bombs out of games, but I cannot tell you the number of games i have watched him dribble at halfcourt until the clock runs down to 7 seconds and then he gets 5 feet within the three point line and surprise, misses. Or when Jrich gets hot and starts hitting threes and he decides its time for a drive through 4 defenders and a double clutch layup which, somehow, misses. Jrich is clutch and durable. Hes probably the most clutch on the team, think about his golden state days, versus dallas, the three pointer to win, the best buzzer beater of the year. Yet I think I saw Jrich maybe shoot 4 buzzer beaters on the year. Adam Morrison used to be able to hit ridiculous buzzer beaters. Why felton decides he should be shooting them, I dont know. It doesnt happen everytime, but it did many, way too many.

He wants to be a great pg and leader, and while I admire his drive, shooting more and taking difficult shots doesnt really help him accomplish that goal or help the team win. Can he be a good PG, definitely, but I detailed in a very long post my grievances with him, and they still stand.

[qchoops]

Just for arguments sake...
Of those 13 games with Wallace - 10 were on the road
Of the 12 without Gerald - 6 were on the road

Additionally -
13 games with Gerald included 8 contests against playoff teams (plus a game against Portland), but among the weaker opponents, there were 3 games against Miami, Memphis, and Seattle.
12 games without Crash, there 6 games against playoff teams. Weaker opponents: Minn twice, Indiana, New Jersey, and New York.

110oldeast - Might the level of competition played a significant role in Raymond and the team's prowess without Gerald? I'm not saying that Gerald does not bog the offense down a bit, and maybe make it less effective...but I'm not convinced that he makes the team worse overall, due to his contributions on the defensive end.

Final note: From February 29th on, the team was at 106.3 points scored per 100 possessions and 105.1 points allowed, with Gerald. Without, the numbers are 108.3 for and 109.8 against.